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rbrandes
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2012
Posts: 132
Location: Panama City Beach, FL
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 Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:23 am Post subject: What's with heater cables? |
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So, Bently was of no use. I used another manual to learn about heater cables.
The driver's side wasn't working. I pulled the cable out by the brake lever to find two wires broken at the same place.
At the heater box, only one wire and I can't get it to budge out of the tube.
Looking on cip1 I see two types of cables, heater cables with two wires and then rear footwell flap cables.
Can there be something at the rear footwell keeping the cable from coming out the back by the heater box?
_________________
Regards, Ray
'68 Beetle
Panama City Beach, Florida USA |
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Yehan73
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2008
Posts: 648
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| If its already broken you should be able to pull them out no problem. Otherwise I think you put them from inside the car first. |
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RichG
Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2005
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| The rear foot well and heater box cables are separate and different. If the heater box cable lost it's end cap seal, water & salt and dirt get into the tube and it rusts shut. Hook the cable end by the heater box to your cordless drill and spin it out. Then take a length of coat hanger wire hooked to your drill and ream out the heater cable tube. When it is clean, heavily grease the new cable, install and put a new end seal on it. |
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RA 70
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2009
Posts: 1092
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe the one you pulled out was the heater flap cables for the under the rear seats, which at least on a 70 is the driver side lever. The passenger side opens the flaps on the heater boxes, thus giving you heat. I got my replacement cables from wolfsburgwest, after accidentally cutting my rear seat flap cables when I was cutting out my rusted out floor pans. |
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rbrandes
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2012
Posts: 132
Location: Panama City Beach, FL
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:55 am Post subject: |
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I am still a bit confused. My car seems to be a parts car and things may be missing.
The right side lever operates the right side heater box valve just fine.
The left side had two wires at the lever that are broken about 15" from the hook.
The left side wire at the heater box is frozen and I will be going after that before I buy any parts.
What I would really like to see is a schematic of the cabling for a '68 bug.
I can find no evidence of any wires going to the rear foot well flaps.
Regards, Ray
_________________
Regards, Ray
'68 Beetle
Panama City Beach, Florida USA |
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:44 am Post subject: |
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The driver side lever operates the front footwell flaps (those channels by your feet when you're sitting in the front of the car). So, if those cables are broken, they have no replacements. When you operate this left-side lever, you open and close the front footwell vents, as well as, the rear-seat vents. Closing the vents, forces air to your windshield.
The right-side lever (by the passenger), has a single cable that splits into two cables (one for each heat exchanger flap at the engine. When you pull up on this lever, you merely allow heat into the cabin.
Tim |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32563
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think that you realize that each operating lever moves at least two cables.
In the entire heating system Two cables are always crimped together onto one hook and operate a pair of flaps, one on the left and a corresponding one on the right side. Each end of the cable goes from the hook into it's own channel.
The drawing below shows two channels for the cables to the heater boxes, these are hooked onto the Right Lever.
It also shows two channels going to the "Y" under the back seat. These cables are operated by the Left Lever. The "Y"s Have flaps in them that direct some of the hot air to the rear foot well area or all of the hot air to the front.
The newer Bugs (73 up) also have a 2nd pair of cables attached to the Left Lever (the same lever now operates four (4) cables, still operates the two cables to the "Y"s) that open or close the front foot well vents directing hot air to the windshield. These cables are not shown on the attached drawing.
BTW, this drawing came out of the Bentley Manual.......
The wire channels can fill up with crud, you may have a broken end in he channel. Use a small steel wire rope to feed into the pipe by the hand brake and push out the crud and broken bits.
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert
Last edited by djkeev on Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rbrandes
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2012
Posts: 132
Location: Panama City Beach, FL
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Dave!
I have revisited the Bently manual and found that page.
Regards, Ray
_________________
Regards, Ray
'68 Beetle
Panama City Beach, Florida USA |
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'69Custom
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2008
Posts: 2497
Location: Ventura, California
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:26 am Post subject: |
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This interests me in the sense that, in my own '69, there is no evidence that the left heater lever operates anything more than the rear footwell flaps. There isn't any tube or passage that goes to the "Y" to direct cables through beyond those two flaps. The front footwell flaps are controlled by their own cables on each side at the kick panels.
_________________
-Tim
1969 Frankenbug
1965 Ford Mustang
:2gunfire: F-U-M-P!
~"I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken." ~The Boss
Please excuse any typos as my iPhone doesn't speak English very well.
| tham64 wrote: |
Why tune a big round again and again????? For me.... 1 hour will solve the case  |
www.endlesscustomz.com |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32563
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| '69Custom wrote: |
| This interests me in the sense that, in my own '69, there is no evidence that the left heater lever operates anything more than the rear footwell flaps. There isn't any tube or passage that goes to the "Y" to direct cables through beyond those two flaps. The front footwell flaps are controlled by their own cables on each side at the kick panels. |
And you are correct!
It was not until the 1973 model year that they connected the front flap controls to the left heat lever.
From 1969 (some say late 1968) through 1972 the front footwell were controlled by their own independent cables. Or simply a lever on the flap itself.
In some ways I think the 69-72 system was better. You could mix and match or isolate front and rear, even isolate just the front left / right.
In the 73 up system they both were turned on and off together. There was no way to operate only the rear vents or only the front vents.
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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'69Custom
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2008
Posts: 2497
Location: Ventura, California
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| '69Custom wrote: |
| This interests me in the sense that, in my own '69, there is no evidence that the left heater lever operates anything more than the rear footwell flaps. There isn't any tube or passage that goes to the "Y" to direct cables through beyond those two flaps. The front footwell flaps are controlled by their own cables on each side at the kick panels. |
And you are correct!
It was not until the 1973 model year that they connected the front flap controls to the left heat lever.
From 1969 (some say late 1968) through 1972 the front footwell were controlled by their own independent cables. Or simply a lever on the flap itself.
In some ways I think the 69-72 system was better. You could mix and match or isolate front and rear, even isolate just the front left / right.
In the 73 up system they both were turned on and off together. There was no way to operate only the rear vents or only the front vents.
Dave |
It also makes for some interesting and varied responses for a newbie coming in and asking a question, trying to understand something. He's now been given...what? Four different answers to how his system should work, all given from the perspective of those using their own vehicles as a baseline.
Poor guy. Still, it broadens the knowledge and there were still some great tips involved in the diagnosis, clean up and repair of his system.
_________________
-Tim
1969 Frankenbug
1965 Ford Mustang
:2gunfire: F-U-M-P!
~"I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken." ~The Boss
Please excuse any typos as my iPhone doesn't speak English very well.
| tham64 wrote: |
| Why tune a big round again and again????? For me.... 1 hour will solve the case |
www.endlesscustomz.com |
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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You will receive several different answers when several different changes were made to the heater/defrost system controls, over the years.
My 74 SB had cables to the front heater channels that were controled by the left-hand tunnel handle. They are now, of course, unhooked for unknown reasons by the PO.
I have a set of front heater-channel controls that mount under the dash in the front wheel wells. I'll use these until I get a new carpet set and rip out my old carpet to expose the OEM cable routing from the tunnel control to the heater channels, and do the job properly.
Tim |
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