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Smallsc111 Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2009 Posts: 203 Location: Dallas,TX
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: Valve Train Blues |
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Hello all,
I had some leaky push rod tube seals that I got around to replacing today. Got everything switched out and put back together and started right up but runs like crap. It sounds like the timing is way off but the only thing I changed was the seals and what you have to remove to get them out. I'm getting so frustrated that I'm about to start throwing tools. Can anybody give me any ideas towards the culprit?
Thanks guys,
MC _________________ '74 Baja- Dad's Daily
*PROUD FORMER DAS KLUB MEMBER*
thechief86 wrote: |
jlex wrote: |
Might as well be driving a Hummer.... |
nah, then he'd look like a jackass on top of getting crummy mileage. at least the bug looks cool |
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schadenfreude Banned
Joined: August 25, 2011 Posts: 1535
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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well you never said which of the 3 ways, you did it.?
pulled push rods.
yanked the tubes. (gorilla yanking) quite common.
put in new tubes and seals, buy forcing in stock tubes. hard way.
way 2: special new collapsible tubes. easy way.
way 3. heads off. hard way, but factory way.
my guess.
push rod fell off.
or
lash all wrong.
or mixed up spark plug wires.
or tripped on coil + wire, LOL.
or spilled milk shake into dizzy...
best practice, after messing with valve.s
check compression, so you don't burn them up. |
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Smallsc111 Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2009 Posts: 203 Location: Dallas,TX
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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way 2: collapsible tubes. Kept the sides separate but I didn't necessarily put the same push rods into the same valves. How do I check the lash? Also I adjusted the valves each time to .06 in each time as well. _________________ '74 Baja- Dad's Daily
*PROUD FORMER DAS KLUB MEMBER*
thechief86 wrote: |
jlex wrote: |
Might as well be driving a Hummer.... |
nah, then he'd look like a jackass on top of getting crummy mileage. at least the bug looks cool |
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Smallsc111 Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2009 Posts: 203 Location: Dallas,TX
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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also I would like to mention that this is the third time I've done this. I had rusty stock push rod tubes and replaced it with spring loaded tubes and rubber seals that perished so I'm just replacing the seals this time. I don't think I did anything different and that's why its driving me insane _________________ '74 Baja- Dad's Daily
*PROUD FORMER DAS KLUB MEMBER*
thechief86 wrote: |
jlex wrote: |
Might as well be driving a Hummer.... |
nah, then he'd look like a jackass on top of getting crummy mileage. at least the bug looks cool |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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the push rods are of different lenght - you must re- adjust your valves _________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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Smallsc111 Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2009 Posts: 203 Location: Dallas,TX
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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did that _________________ '74 Baja- Dad's Daily
*PROUD FORMER DAS KLUB MEMBER*
thechief86 wrote: |
jlex wrote: |
Might as well be driving a Hummer.... |
nah, then he'd look like a jackass on top of getting crummy mileage. at least the bug looks cool |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Well, you probably have a happenchance unrelated problem-
Seems like I have had my share on these bugs
As a rule of thumb I always start at spark
Do you know what to do? _________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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schadenfreude Banned
Joined: August 25, 2011 Posts: 1535
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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rule one. never mix parts. (motor builders book 1 to 100)
they are broken in , at each point.
now you will have varying lash till it settles out again.
set the lash.
did you just loosen the rocker stands and not loosen the valve adjusters first.
this too is bad practice. it puts huge stress on those 2 studs.
a vw bug , no-no.
but forget that , that is all water under the bridge now.
set lash 2 times , now then at 1000 miles. (or less if paranoid, as is case)
if it looks good, and stable go 3k next time.
click number 1 engine killer here.
http://ac-vw-remove.com/How_to_fix_it/index.html |
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schadenfreude Banned
Joined: August 25, 2011 Posts: 1535
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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i did that,
did what?
you asked how to set. lash.
you need to set the lash or burn the valve to a crisp as the glow cheery red.
new seals PR tubes
key off, LOL
off valve covers ,VC.
relax the adjusters (rocker) 100%
remove rocker stands, if you cant get all next step. i just remove it.
i remove all push rods and mark them 1 to 8 (1 is exh #1 cyl)
then yank all PR tubes.
put in the new fancy dancy tubes. with new SIL seals (best kind)
put back PR where they came from.
put back rocker shaft. dont mix left and right. mark them.
set lash. (find TDC #1 cyl 0degr mark with #1 firing, and so on)
VC lids back on. new gasket my be needed.
check oil level and start motor.
Last edited by schadenfreude on Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Smallsc111 Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2009 Posts: 203 Location: Dallas,TX
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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shoot got lash confused with the geometry. Set the lash at .06. I was like how the hell did I change lash without taking out shims or something. Lash is set with no improvement. I'll check the spark and update _________________ '74 Baja- Dad's Daily
*PROUD FORMER DAS KLUB MEMBER*
thechief86 wrote: |
jlex wrote: |
Might as well be driving a Hummer.... |
nah, then he'd look like a jackass on top of getting crummy mileage. at least the bug looks cool |
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schadenfreude Banned
Joined: August 25, 2011 Posts: 1535
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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.06 is big enough to throw a hat through.
sure is not metric, that be too tight..
drop a zero?
geometry puts the rocker tip , back in the sweet spot, at valve 1/2 way open.
preventing, stem and guide rapid wear.
lash, (or valve stem gaps) allow for cylinder expansion.
so must be done cold,
racers with steel push rods or other exotic hardware do other things.
my comments are for stock motor, if not stock now is the time to fess up.
Last edited by schadenfreude on Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mrbigmax Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2011 Posts: 1289 Location: Modesto, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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I sure hope you didn't set the valve lash at .06" That's is way too loose. That's about 1/16th of and inch! You want to set them at .006" |
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schadenfreude Banned
Joined: August 25, 2011 Posts: 1535
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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mr big i beat you by 2 min.
hehehehehehehe |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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schadenfreude
the master ! _________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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Smallsc111 Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2009 Posts: 203 Location: Dallas,TX
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Good call on checking for spark had 3 and 4 plug wires switched _________________ '74 Baja- Dad's Daily
*PROUD FORMER DAS KLUB MEMBER*
thechief86 wrote: |
jlex wrote: |
Might as well be driving a Hummer.... |
nah, then he'd look like a jackass on top of getting crummy mileage. at least the bug looks cool |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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yahooooo! _________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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tgsanford Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2003 Posts: 160
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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I love this place! It's way better than any TV show. _________________ My VW History:
73 - Super: Present
71 - Super: 1995 - 1998
74 - Super : 1975 - 1984
johnnypan wrote:
Yes they are a pain in the ass,germany's revenge for the thrashing the allies gave them during the big one.Cheap tinny underpowered kraut windmills,prone to breakdown....Only a fool would own one... |
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johnnypan Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2007 Posts: 7431 Location: sackamenna
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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you'll be in good practice soon enough,those collapseable pushrod tubes leak like a sieve... |
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Smallsc111 Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2009 Posts: 203 Location: Dallas,TX
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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haven't had an issue with them so far *knock on wood* maybe the o rings will be next rather than the seals _________________ '74 Baja- Dad's Daily
*PROUD FORMER DAS KLUB MEMBER*
thechief86 wrote: |
jlex wrote: |
Might as well be driving a Hummer.... |
nah, then he'd look like a jackass on top of getting crummy mileage. at least the bug looks cool |
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