Die Hard Platinum (Odyssey PC1750) Aux Battery under seat

[presslab]

[shepherdsond]

[westyventures]

[westyventures]

[shepherdsond]

[derekdrew]

There is no tire rubbing to fit the 31 size because the modifications to the battery box take place along the inside edge of the battery box near where people walk from the front of the van to the back between the seats, and these modifications do not require you to make the battery box deeper -- only wider -- in the furtherest possible distance away from the tires. All you do is take some metal out near where the seat belt bolts there near the middle of the van. Also, the metal trimming in that area *does not show*. The purpose of these large batteries is not engine starting, it is for extended run time while camping and using accessories. Otherwise, you might as well use a Group 41 battery. Karl, you absolutely MUST sell your 27 size batteries and switch to 31s. You know you want to don't you. How will you be able to sleep at night otherwise?

[crazyvwvanman]

The Xantrex device under discussion is a modification to the alternator to add an intelligent voltage regulator capability instead of the standard voltage regulator. The output of the alternator is then programmable and adjustable. This is a more efficient charging method and the charge current is then dependent on what the alternator can put out, about 10+ times what the Powerstream 7.5 amp charger can do.

These are primarily intended for Marine type uses, where the engine runs continuously for many hours or even days. The program resets each time the engine is turned off. Then the program begins again when you start the engine. I have to wonder how much benefit this device offers for my driving and camping style.

Mark

[gl98115]

Good tips on mounting a PM-1 behind the driver's seat. I have mine in the little cabinet next to the water tank.

Has anyone looked at this ProMariner Digital Mobile Charge130?

http://www.pmariner.com/productFeature.php?ProductNum=05513&page=0

Pricey (~$450 street) but it looks like it will charge an aux battery with full alternator current and a three stage profile.

http://www.3tailer.com/promariner-digital-mobile-c...harger-12v

Question about the Xantrex Alternator Regulator is how to manage two batteries - run it with a Yandina?

Good topic for me as I live in an apt without convenient AC access.
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'87 faux-Syncro Westy w/ 2.3l GoWesty WBX

[westyventures]

[westyventures]

[crazyvwvanman]

The question is how long of a charging cycle is needed to get the benefit. I shut my engine off every hour or two. When touring a scenic area I might stop every 15-20 minutes. Might make more sense to hook up to 110 once or twice a week and run a smart charger then. I am asking, not saying.

Mark

[presslab]

I mentioned it before, but the low-buck solution that I've been using for a few years on my Subaru alternator is to insert a diode into the sense wire for the stock internal regulator. This bumps up the voltage by 0.7V. A couple bucks from Radio Shack and a few minutes to solder it in.
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1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti

[derekdrew]

OK, here is a Group 31 battery under the drivers seat, snug as a bug in a rug. Actually, for these pictures, the rug covering the battery is not there so you see the battery itself. Normally, the battery will not be visible. Note how the swivel was trimmed so it would not hit the battery as you have got to be comfortable with that trimming off the corner and rear edge. Also, as for weakening the area behind the seat understructure, that only area that has been narrowed is the area underneath the letters 3-09 50131 in the first picture below. But as you can see, the area has not been narrowed by much, and the table post still attaches as it normally would.

You can see some more pictures to go along with these here if you want more: https://picasaweb.google.com/111803335891651546087/BatteryVanagonSyncroGroup31# You might have to monkey with that URL a little.

[img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f-C5DHGNr8c/T6F_8TpAIkI/AAAAAAAAAKo/PVzy29aWxIo/s800/Spring%25202012%2520Van%2520Photos%2520095.JPG [/img]

[img][/img][img][/img]

[westyventures]

Well, your idea of 'trimming' and mine are quite a distance apart. I'll just add that I would never offer this solution to a paying customer. If the customer 'had to have' a 31 in there, I'd deepen the box and widen it toward the tire. The RR of the driver's seat box is now weakened as well as the seat belt attachment point and the swivel tracks. Or am I being too critical? (I've been told I can be...)

[insyncro]

[derekdrew]

Thinking about stength issues in the event of a catastrophic accident is a good idea. So, for example, if doing a mod like this, don't forget to add reinforcing steel bars/beams/elemnts to places inside the seat support channel that might have got weakened by the mod. That's what we did because we were afraid the seat understructure might be weakened otherwise. Also, be sure to leave the metal structure holding the seat belt bolt in place the way we did or else the seat belt mounting nut structure could be weakened too, a consideration that is correctly raised here by Karl. For some syncros with very large tires, there really isn't enough room to *lower* the battery box unless switching to a narrowish battery becauase otherwise the corner of the battery box will hit larger size tires. So, in my book, look to the inside (toward center of van) area of the battery box for expansion since the outside (toward the wheel) can't really be changed for those of us with large size tires. I wouldn't be surprised if the van that Dylan had with the dropped battery box either had a narrowish battery compared to the one I installed here, or had smaller diameter tires than 30", because otherwise Karl's concern about hitting the tire would become a real limiting factor in how far down the battery box can be dropped. I think it is good to be scared .... ponder things... sleep on them.... problem solve..... so, critical is good in my book and not a bad thing.

[WandS]

Karl,

I think i have found my battery. Thanks for letting me us know about the lifeline group 27 that fits in the battery box. I am guessing it should be leaps and bounds better than a typical AGM battery at that cost. Any recommendations for a great charger for this battery? I am ready to purchase my inverter, charger, fuses, wiring etc.

I thought about fabricating the boxes to go deeper, but it don't know how much above 100 a/h that is going to afford me.

Thanks for the great thread guys. This is all just in time.
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85 Westy Weekender with a Bostig Conversion.

[westyventures]

The 27 and 31 are both the same height, so the box would still need to be deepened (in another thread someone has done this). Otherwise you'll still need to trim a lot, as Derek has, to clear the top of the battery. If you aren't turning the swivel it might be fine having 2" of battery above the top of the box.

[WandS]

Darn. For some reason i though you posted that you just had to but the bolts of the terminals. I don't have a swivel seat. Not sure if i want to deepen the box just to close the lid. Will have to take a look at that tomorrow. Sticking up may not be that bad.
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85 Westy Weekender with a Bostig Conversion.

[derekdrew]

The reason I used to use the Exide NC-27 is that unlike most other Group 27 batteries, with that particular size of lead-acid battery you don't actually have to trim the entire edge of the seat swivel base in order to fit the battery, and if you want the swivel to work, it will, provided you trim only the *corner* of the seat swivel base. This will be much less dramatic cutting and make you feel better about the strength left. All other Group 27s which were not lead-acid traditional batteries I found (my search was not comprehensive) were too tall for this. I don't think it is a good idea to drop the entire battery box for people who run large size tires (e.g., 30") because otherwise the corner of the battery box will hit the tire more frequently. I am thinking that if Karl is planning to drop his battery box, that he will NOT drop the very end of the battery box that is over near the tire or I see troubles with large size tires. Instead, I'd drop only the 95% of the battery box which is furtherest away from the tire but NOT drop the corner that hits the tire, if you can understand what I am saying about the limitations of dropping. This issue will be eased with a Group 27 battery vs. a Group 31 battery because the Group 27 is narrower. Still, it is possible that if you are going to drop a Group 27 battery box that you will also need to move the Group 27 battery further inbound (toward the middle of the van) because of the need to stay further away from the tire the further you drop. In that event, in an extreme case, you might end up having to make the same cuts for a greatly dropped Group 27 battery that one might have had to make to fit an un-dropped Group 31 battery. Hearing further about what karl has to do to make the Group 27 batteries fit the way he wants to should be spectacularly interesting. The other comments about the wisdom of extending the battery box down and dropping it right down onto the frame are really excellent, and aside from the need to move the battery inbound (or get a narrow battery) there is a possibility that dropping batteries down to the frame could yield even more capacity of a battery than a Group 31. My guess is that such a battery would be a lot taller, but narrower, than a 31 or 27.

In closing, I will here relate an email I got from another vanagonite, which email did not make it into public yet dispite its creativity:

====================
New list topic: How many 31 fit in a van?

Especially a van with the new GoWesty 31 mod. For only 3700 dollars
you can fit 14 additional 31s in this rack conveniently located
underneath the van, and you lose only an insignificant amount of
clearance, and you'll never notice as your van is now too heavy to
actually move.

Order yours today.

Mike
===========================

The email above sparked the idea that there could also be a double 31 club ("31/31 Club"), limited to members who have both 31" tall tires and also a Group 31 battery under the drivers seat.