Die Hard Platinum (Odyssey PC1750) Aux Battery under seat

[westyventures]

Derek, what I have planned will not change the proximity of the battery box to the tire and there is no reason to move anything inward.
Bigger numbers have no interest to me (tires - 30" is just fine) other than amp-hours, where 200 is just fine.

[derekdrew]

I just measured and the battery box can be dropped an extra ~2.5" or so. Having the ability to install a battery that is 2.5" taller than otherwise is such a meaningful jump that it makes VW's decision to use this size of battery box, as a colossally senseless limitation.

The more I think about this, the more possible it seems that *every* camper should have its battery box lowered, and that there should be battery box lowering stations all around the country for people to drive in to, use, and drive away with new batteries installed. As I said before, not all of the 2.5" may be available with every battery size because of the need to keep away from the tire for large tire vehicles.

The question remains as to whether there exists a battery which is the same as Group 27 size or Group 31 size, but 2.5" taller. If so, then the 31 or the 27 might look like only a transitional size until we get our heads around what yet larger size still could be used. The new kings of the battery heap have yet to make themselves shown pending the further rsearch.

One thing I don't know is whether the 2WD's are identical to syncros in this area of the vehicle. If not, the 2.5" extra drop might not be available to the 2WDs, but somebody else could check that.

All else being equal, then, it seems it would be possible to fit a battery that is up to 12" tall in these spaces!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . I wonder how much more battery capacity *that* might gain us..... the 200 amp hours Karl wants?????????

To put this in perspective, the Optimas that so many Vanagon owners are proud of having installed have only ~50 amp hours, so the Lifeline Group 31 battery discussed in this thread is the equal to 2.5 of these Optimas in Amp Hours!!!!

THE NEXT PARAGRAPH IMMEDIATELY BELOW IS WRONG, SEE KARL's explaination of the handle being a part of the measurement below. Sorry.

Anyway, something giving me a headache is that in reviewing the lifeline battery size info at http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/rvdeepcyclebatteries.php , it now seems to me that the Group 31 lifelines may actually be smaller, and easier to fit, than the Group 27 lifelines!!!!!!! (in the two dimensions that are most important.) Accordingly, much of this thread, or what I have written in it about the 27s being smaller than the 31s, might be in error and I should be wipped. In other words, there is a possibility that the 31 actually requires *less* cutting than the 27. The 31 is 12.9 inches wide and the 27 is wider at 13.09 inches. Moreover, the 31 is *less* than 1 mm!!!!! taller than the 27 Lifeline. On the presumption that the slight additional width in the other dimension of the 31 of 4mm doesn't really matter to anything that I know of (6.6 inches vs. 6.75 inches) there is a possibility that the 31 is going to be a superior choice to the 27 in almost any possible scenario of box cutting or not cutting. Added to that, you get 25% more amp hours from the 31xt and 25% more reserve capacity in the 31xt. If all of these things are true, then it is possible that it would be a mistake to put a 27 Lifeline in any van unless you already owned the 27s and couldn't return them. Maybe there is something wrong with my analysis here. If there is, then it would be based on the one dimension in which the 31 is materially larger than the 27 (which is from the front-to-the-back width in the vehicle when the battery is installed beyind the drivers seat.... ~6-3/4"). I am not familiar that this particular dimension is important in terms of any cutting issues, however. I don't think it is. Could the upshot of this post possibly be: do not use 27s! ??????? If the answer is no, perhaps it is because there is something about extra flexibile configurability of 27 posts as I know Karl had mentioned something about them.

THE PARAGRAPH IMMEDIATELY ABOVE IS WRONG, SEE KARL's explaination of the handle being a part of the measurement below. Sorry. [/b]

[westyventures]

C'mon, Derek, I've already spelled it out - or so I thought!

Group 27 = 12" long, group 31 = 13" long. The difference in Lifeline's spec sheet is that they include the handle in their 'overall' dimension of the 27; the 31 is a slightly different battery with no handle. These dimensions can be seen if you click on the photo of each battery:
http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/rvdeepcyclebatteries.php

The battery boxes, in my measuring, will accommodate 2-1/4" more depth if the bottom is lowered or if the box is cut out totally and a deeper box fabricated to rest upon the frame. Then the 27 will fit entirely under the original cover, as the box is a smidge over 12" long. The 31 will only fit with extensive cutting a remodeling. The 'other' way to enlarge would be lengthwise (2" forward) but would require removal of the Westy swivel to do the work. Fortunately, both of my project vans have no swivels yet, so the first will be modified in this manner - only AGM (or Gel) will work in this configuration though.

The posts - included in height dimensions is a thick bolt that screws vertically into the center of the Lifeline battery posts. Removing it to use std. battery clamp terminals results in about 1/4" less height.

[insyncro]

http://www.braillebattery.com/

One of my favorite companies.
They have been backing me and many of the vehicles I maintain for over 10 years.
Custom sizes are available.
The batteries I am using in a Syncro are for endurance racing, built for use in Daytona prototype chassies and offer far more juice than the retail versions.
Yes they are carbon fiber
Price and availability will deter most.
I am purely posting the link to the Braille site so interested parties can see options of smaller, very well built units.
I do not use these as house batteries, nor do I mount my house batteries in the stock locations.

[BillM]

I installed the Diehard P2 under my drivers seat. I have a NAPA
Lead-acid under my pass seat. I have a yandina installed
and an onboard shore power charger. The charger is wired
to the P2 and I depend on the yandina to charge both batteries
when plugged in. Worked great with the old deep cycle I had
but needed more amp hours which is why I installed the P2.
I changed the charge profile of my shore charger so it will
properly charge the P2@ 14.7 VDC Absorption 13.6 Float.
It brought the P2 up to full charge last night but I am worried
that when the Yandina combines it will ruin my start battery
as its a lead-acid battery. Am I stuck with having to get a AGM
battery for my start battery or will I be ok? I really don't want
to have to replace my start battery or put a switch on the wire
from the Yandina to Start battery lead.
On another note it was nice to see that leaving the new Truckfridge
on last night barely put a draw on the new P2 battery.
_________________
Bill M
87 Westy

[Farfrumwork]

My Diehard (installed in May '12) performed flawlessly on a 2500+mi trip in June. It is setup with a yandina and regular lead-acid starter and is powering my Edgestar 43qt cooler.

The van was mostly driven everyday, but did sit for 2-3 days at my inlaws. The cooler maintained it's 39-40F setting and we had no issues at all from the battery.

btw - I just plugged it in and went. No special charging, although I may buy a good AGM charger to top it off pre/post trips to make it last a bit longer.


Great setup!

(my wife LOVES the cooler!)
_________________
sold -> '85 Wolfsburg Syncro / 'Built' DOHC EJ25 (a great machine!)
'07 Legacy spec.B, road tuned stgII
'17 4x4 Sprinter, stone grey, SMB pop-top, on 33"s

"Blood stains, speed kills - Fast cars, cheap thrills - Rich girls, fine wine - I've lost my sense, I've lost control, I've lost my mind"

[BillM]

I think that I have the answer to my problem. My charger is
wired directly to my P2 battery. The yandina is wired between
the P2(AGM) and start battery (lead). If I hook the blue
wire from the Yandina directly to where the positive lead
from the charger attatches to the P2(AGM) it will seperate the
batteries when the charger is putting out higher than 14.2
volts. That way when the charger is in the float mode it will
still combine and keep the starting battery topped off. It won't
interfere when I am using my alternator as the charge source
because it won't produce 14.2 volts at the P2 battery terminal
it in the mid 13v range while running.
Then later when I add solar I can run that direct to the P2
battery from the Morningstar controller with no I'll effects right?
I'll post pictures later of my installation along with my new
trailer later tonight as we got our Apple desk top back today.
_________________
Bill M
87 Westy

[BillM]

Pictures of P2 in a stock westy battery box with only modification to lid
and a small notch out of the lip along the backside...

it does stick up a bit above the box but not enough that when the carpet
is down it is in the way of anything. Seat still swivels and underseat
drawer is fine. I have a Yandina C100 combiner that I am also using
as a regulator as posted above to keep my Start battery from being
exposed to the higher voltages that the P2 needs and gets from my
onboard AC charger. I also plan to add a solar setup with a morningstar
controller soon. I had one of the Kyocera panels that were on sale
shipped to me and it arrived destroyed. Once I source a new panel
I'll get that set up installed. You may also see in my pictures how I
had an invertor but that is no longer wired up. We were only using it
to charge cell phones,computers,etc...I will install a smaller invertor
and install a couple USB ports to help save on power.
_________________
Bill M
87 Westy

[tschroeder0]

so, maybe I'm wrong but I seem to be reading conflicting views on using the stock charging system w/o modification to charge the platinum battery.

Is it correct that a stock alternator from a subie 2.2 WILL charge this (even though it may take a bit longer charge time, or it will not without being bumped up to a 14.7 output?

Thanks,
Todd.

[shepherdsond]

Diehard P2's are on 10% sale at Sears this week..
_________________
87 Syncro Hightop Camper
3 knobs + solid shaft
2.2 Phase II Subaru
Hi-Top build thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=534517

[Turk.380]

[BillM]

[DeadSetMonkey]

[IrideWheelies]

It's best to read the voltage at the battery, that's the only voltage the battery sees. While youre doing that, it's a good idea to compare volts at the battery to volts at the alternator. If there's a big difference you'll benefit from cleaning the connections or adding an additional wire between alternator and starter, like this http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=23762&category_id=2418&category_parent_id=
_________________
89' Dove Blue Syncro Hightop

[DeadSetMonkey]

[IrideWheelies]

Actually, leave the battery terminals connected and read the voltage with your meter right on the terminals while the engine is running. It will read lowest at idle so rev it up to 2000 rom or so to get an idea of what's going on while you drive.

Stolen from the web:

start by testing the alternator's output at the Battery itself. Whip out your multimeter and turn the selector knob to VOLTS DC. You can use an analog multimeter or a digital multimeter ( I prefer the digital ones).
Be careful, take all necessary safety precautions and use common sense when performing all of the tests in this article.
Start the vehicle (it'll start and stay running if you have charged the battery.)
Put the RED multimeter lead on the battery positive terminal.
Put the BLACK lead on the battery negative terminal.
Look at the reading. It should hover above 12 volts.
_________________
89' Dove Blue Syncro Hightop

[DeadSetMonkey]

[alain riaud]

Are you sure this battery is a deep cycle type, not a cranking battery.
With a deep cycle batterie you can expect 80% of the mentioned capacity for several hundred cycles.
If you expect a long life for a cranking battery, don'extract more than 20% of the mentioned capacity.

[luVWagn]

[IrideWheelies]

They are. If you want to know more read the odyssey technical manual: http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-TM-001_0411_000.pdf

From this site http://www.odysseybattery.com/literature.html

The ODYSSEY® battery ingeniously uses absorbed glass mat (AGM) valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) technology to offer, in one package, the characteristics of two separate batteries. It can deep cycle as well as deliver serious cranking power - it is like an athlete who is both a champion long distance runner and an excellent sprinter. Traditional battery designs allow them to either deep cycle or provide high amperage discharges for applications such as engine starting. The ODYSSEY battery can support applications in either category. ODYSSEY batteries are capable of providing engine cranking pulses of up to 2,250A for 5 seconds at 25oC (77oF) as well as deliver 400 charge/discharge cycles to 80% depth of discharge (DOD) when properly charged. A typical starting, lighting and ignition (SLI) battery, for example, is designed to provide short-duration, high-amperage pulses; it performs poorly when repeatedly taken down to deep depths of discharge or if they are placed on a continuous trickle charge, such as when they are used to crank a backup generator. A traditional battery resembles either a sprinter or a long distance runner; an ODYSSEY battery will do both - provide short duration high amperage pulses or low rate, long duration drains.

Also look at the warranty from Sears. 4-year free replacement and 100 month pro-rated. You can't beat it.

Don't just take my word for it. Google die hard platinum and odyssey battery and you'll find that they're very well regarded in commercial and automotive enthusiast cultures.
_________________
89' Dove Blue Syncro Hightop