| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Lammy1
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2012
Posts: 12
Location: UK
|
 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:45 am Post subject: Pre '60 MOT's |
 |
|
| Here's one for discussion. In Britain we have an MOT test every year to prove that the vehicle meets safety standards, everything from corrosion on chassis and body to emmissions, lights etc. This is proof that the vehicle is roadworthy, in a safe condition and all vehicles over 3 years old require an MOT. I believe you have a DOT test in some states. There has just been an announcement here that all vehicles pre 1960 will now be excempt from this test and the reason given is that anyone owning, driving and maintaining these vehicles are usually pretty much "on the ball", maintaining and restoring to a certain standard. Now, there are two sides too this - if u are forced to comply to rules and standards, then inevetably u comply.But if it's up to the owner to decide how well he maintains his vehicle, how many people would take a few risks and save the money ? I guess a high percentage of enthusiast like us, dedicated to the cause - will maintain and keep up to standard. But I've absolutely no doubt that some ( money tight ETC ) will end up running unroadworthy vehicles. Whats your thoughts ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
notchback
Insensitive Jerk
Joined: December 16, 2003
Posts: 6796
Location: 208
|
| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think you're correct. By making a blanket statement saying that owners of old vehicles will keep them up to standards anyway, you open a whole new game. Where I live, in Idaho, there are no inspections required for safety/condition/etc. If it runs you can pretty much license it and drive it. Say hello to cars like this on the road:
_________________
Brain Trust member #13
Sad, unnecessary & cruel.
Let's quit sending money to the middle east and let them hate us for free. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Irvin
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2007
Posts: 96
Location: 48.408123° N 4.499546° W
|
| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 7:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know how reliable your MOT is, but in France it's pure bullshit.
Last time I went there with my westy I was in such a hurry that I had had no time to finish fixing my rear brakes, they were completely unbalanced and my handbrake was just a joke.
As a non-compliant cars have two months to pass the test again, and as it's usually free of charges the second time, I decided to go there anyway, driving slowly in the countryside for a couple of kilometers. I just wanted to know if I missed anything else than the brakes that had to be fixed and buy/replace everything at once before the summer and its thousands of kilometers.
Guess what? The bus went through the tests like a charm. The guy was not even trying to please me because it's a nice old car, it just passed even if it was obviously dangerous to drive. Of course I fixed the brakes asap when I went back home, but I could also have sold the bus as-is with a "proof" that the car was "safe"...
So my point is, no matter how many mandatory tests you have to pass if you deliberately want to put a dangerous car on the road there will always be a way to do it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lammy1
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2012
Posts: 12
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Our MOT's are quite strict here, but I've no doubt that theres a few that get through ! But with the new rules ( or relaxation of rules ) this means that someone with no knowledge whatsoever of vehicles and maintenance, can go and buy an old wreck and put it straight on the road with no checks whatsoever. I'm not worried so much about enthusiasts, its more the people that can now buy something that would previously have had to be extensively restored before it was roadworthy and legally drive it straight away. Also does this mean anything pre '60 now will go UP in price more than say a '61 ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dustin B
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2007
Posts: 688
Location: hesperia, Ca USA
|
| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Im willing to bet that the 1960 and older vehicles will go up inprice. It would be a good selling point.
Dustin
_________________
Wanted Victoria motors licence plate frame.
62 og paint L469 type 1
61 og paint L31 DD panel type 2
Original paint and patina extravaganza http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=187156 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Irvin
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2007
Posts: 96
Location: 48.408123° N 4.499546° W
|
| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Damn, now I will *never* be able to buy a 356 pre-A  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
oorwullie
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2003
Posts: 2016
Location: fribourg,switzerland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
coad 
Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7325
|
| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
They make a good case for it on this web page:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/statements/penning-20111103/
| Quote: |
two-thirds of pre-1960 licensed vehicles (vehicles manufactured prior to 1 January 1960) are driven less than 500 miles each year. This is significantly less than the 9,000 miles driven on average by all licensed vehicles.
Whilst the pre-1960 licensed vehicles made up about 0.6% of the approximately 35.2m licensed vehicles in GB in 2010, they were involved in just 0.03% of road casualties and accidents. The pre-1960 licensed vehicles are largely well maintained by their owners. The initial MoT test failure rate for these vehicles in 2009 was less than 10%, whilst the initial MoT test failure rate for post-1960 licensed vehicles was over 30%. |
This scares me more than anything:
| Quote: |
| It will also bring the age of vehicles requiring the statutory MoT test in line with The Goods Vehicles (Plating and Testing) Regulations 1988, which already exempts unladen pre-1960 manufactured Heavy Goods Vehicles from the roadworthiness test. |
You can drive a heavy truck or bus and never have it inspected, and motorcycles don't get inspected at all?
I think you should be thrilled you have government officials who are willing to think like this:
| Quote: |
“We are committed to reducing regulation which places a financial burden on motorists without providing significant overall benefits. Owners of classic cars and motorbikes are enthusiasts who maintain their vehicles well – they don’t need to be told to look after them, they’re out there every weekend checking the condition of the engine, tyres and bodywork.
“That is why I am today putting forward proposals to scrap the MoT test for these vehicles – this will result in savings for the Government and for motorists.”
Many of the features of the modern MoT test are not suitable for testing classic vehicles built more fifty years ago. However, owners of classic vehicles will still be legally required to ensure that their cars are safe and in a proper condition to be on the road
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kahala46
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2007
Posts: 228
Location: Mesa Arizona
|
| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Try owning a old car in Hawaii |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
doc1369
Samba Member
Joined: March 31, 2010
Posts: 3087
Location: Las Vegas, NV, again
|
| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think it would be a major shot in our economys arm if we had a MOT worth the paper it was written on. 30 percent of the cars here in Vegas drive around on spares, god only knows the condition of the rest of the car. If you were not able to drive these pos cars you would have two choices. Ride the bus or pay someone like me to fix it. So I would ether have more money to spend where you work or have a better drive home. Everyone wins
_________________
Fatchicks: Daily drivers, donor cars, collectibles. What can't they do? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Irvin
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2007
Posts: 96
Location: 48.408123° N 4.499546° W
|
| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| coad wrote: |
I think you should be thrilled you have government officials who are willing to think like this:
| Quote: |
Many of the features of the modern MoT test are not suitable for testing classic vehicles built more fifty years ago. However, owners of classic vehicles will still be legally required to ensure that their cars are safe and in a proper condition to be on the road
|
|
The first part of the quote is not that wrong for pre-60's car if you think a bit about it. I don't know in UK but if you have a look at what they are supposed to test here the only relevant parts for classics are:
- brakes, and I don't even know if cable brakes can pass these tests
- safety belts... which many cars hadn't even in front
- steering
- lights... for 6V cars !  but I have to admit that I would love to see a 20 yo rookie trying to test turnlights on pre-60's VW
And well... that's it. No airbargs, no pollution, no electronics, nothing.
The most funny part is that rust is not a show stopper unless the car is about to fall into pieces, and I've never heard of any car failed for this, but now they want to bother us with the windshield hot air system and fail the cars if it's not working "well enough". What a major advance for safety on the roads !
France's MOT has always been, and will always be, a way to scare owners of ~10 yo cars and incite them to scrap their cars out and go buy a new one with a 10 years loan... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lammy1
Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2012
Posts: 12
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 1:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="coad"]They make a good case for it on this web page:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/statements/penning-20111103/
| Quote: |
two-thirds of pre-1960 licensed vehicles (vehicles manufactured prior to 1 January 1960) are driven less than 500 miles each year. This is significantly less than the 9,000 miles driven on average by all licensed vehicles.
Whilst the pre-1960 licensed vehicles made up about 0.6% of the approximately 35.2m licensed vehicles in GB in 2010, they were involved in just 0.03% of road casualties and accidents. The pre-1960 licensed vehicles are largely well maintained by their owners. The initial MoT test failure rate for these vehicles in 2009 was less than 10%, whilst the initial MoT test failure rate for post-1960 licensed vehicles was over 30%. |
[quote]
“We are committed to reducing regulation which places a financial burden on motorists without providing significant overall benefits. Owners of classic cars and motorbikes are enthusiasts who maintain their vehicles well – they don’t need to be told to look after them, they’re out there every weekend checking the condition of the engine, tyres and bodywork.
So the stats add up but mean nothing as far as who maintains to what level. Its pretty obvious that if these vehicles only make up 0.6% of vehicles on the road - but two thirds of these are only driven 500 miles a year, then obviously they are only LIKELY to be involved in 0.03% of accidents. This is a statistic of likelyhood based on numbers - it does not point to those vehicles being better maintained surely ?
Only the MOT stats add up -cos most "modern" vehicle owners with their bells and whistles on, don't even check their tail lights before driving in for an MOT - so they get instant "stupid" failures.
If two thirds of pre '60 vehicles only do 500 miles a year - does the mentality of - that'll be ok, only did 500 miles in the last twelve months, so it'll be fine - creep in ?
Or how many of us with "modern rides" as well as VW's spend as long maintaining THEM ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Greezy Joe
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2010
Posts: 1201
Location: Crawfordville, Fl
|
| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 5:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Here in Sunny Florida, if you don't like the weather just hang out awhile, it''ll change  The day after they stopped the State Inspections, there where piles of junk rattling, heaving, smoking and swerving all over the road. 
_________________
Current:74 Ghia Coupe w/ 2276
71 Ghia Vert w/ 1835
07 GMC Truck
04 Chrysler Crossfire
73 Harley FLH 93 cid
89 Harley 883 Sportster (1200)
Owned before: 58, 69 Ghia Coupes, 64 Canvas Sunroof, 68, 72, 73, & 74 Bugs, 63 Single Cab, 65 Bus, 66 & 70 Camper
"You have to be smarter than what you're working on" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
