Not a morning bus anymore. cold start issues

[Simbo]

Oops! No I hadn't noticed that, but my symptoms are exactly the same. When the weather goes cold it has real trouble starting in the morning before work. The starter turns over slowly and it sounds like the battery is nearly flat, sometimes it starts sometimes it doesn't. It does this even with a fully charged known good battery. Later when leaving work it's not as bad and if only left a shorter time it starts like nothing is wrong, starter motor spins fast, starts first time. Eventually after a couple of weeks the battery does indeed go flat. I've cleaned up all connections and adjusted the auto choke. Over the summer it starts fine and the battery will last until it goes colder again. It certainly does feel as if the cold is affecting the starter motor and making it slow in operation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks busdaddy.

[airschooled]

Just to cover the basics:
you are pushing the clutch pedal in to start, right? The oil in the transmission gets thick when cold and can strain the starter. Once you're driven a bit, the oil is thinner, and easier to turn. Eliminate this variable for us?
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[Wildthings]

What weight engine oil are you running? A 20w50 or even a 15w40 may cause slow cranking when the temperatures drop.

[SGKent]

SIMBO - buy a new battery or test the one you have. You are describing a borderline bad battery, bad strap or cable. It isn't the oll. England is not cold enough to experience that even with heavy engine oil.

Also don't start it with the clutch in. You will wear out the thrust surface on the #1 main bearing. Always start in neutral.

I'll bet if you measure voltage between the battery terminals when you start it cold and work out from there you will see it drop to about 9V somewhere along the way.
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[Stuartzickefoose]

[CoastalAirCooledVW]

[ncstagger]

pushing the clutch in to start puts the strain on your thrust bearing which is dry before startup so it will wear quicker as SGKent posted above.

it will also allow the starter motor a bit easier time spinning but since starters are a lot cheaper to replace than main bearings its probably wiser to make sure its in neutral and start without pushing the clutch in.
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[airschooled]

This is all good info. Since the owners manual recommends starting with the clutch in during cold weather, I've have been doing it the last few months. Even my fast idle is rough for the first few seconds when it's less than 40* outside in neutral, clutch out. I figured if it helps me in one of the warmest climate zones, chances are the OP is colder right now.

It's a bummer that there is no real discussion about driving techniques like that. Someone mentioned that "drive" and its derivatives are not searchable. Tips like that enlighten us even when we think we're totally certain

Edit: This seems to be ignored, from the OP:

[Wildthings]

I have always started all my vehicles with the tranny in neutral and the clutch pedal depressed. In the winter it takes 15 seconds or longer before I can let the clutch out before the cold tranny will not stall the engine after a cold start so there is not way I am going to put that kind of extra load on the starter by leaving the clutch engaged.

How is the thrust bearing going to suddenly magically become devoid of oil? At 20°F motor oil is so thick you couldn't possibly hurt the thrust bearing unless it has sat dripping down for weeks or months before hand.

[Simbo]

Thanks for the replies people. Just for everyones' info my car is a 1970 1500 Beetle, I do start with the clutch in (but won't be any longer, it'll be in neutral), and I have no headlights or radio on when I start. The temp here at the moment is 0*c or 32*f in the morning going up to 7*c or 44*f in the day and the oil is 10w40. I'll try to test the battery in the morning when I start for work although the battery I'm using was new 12 months ago and the one it replaced was a known good one which had been starting the 1303 I had at the time no problem. I only replaced it because I thought that was the problem. Also if the battery was bad surely it would still sound flat when starting later in the day but it doesn't. Could it be a problem with the starter motor?
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[nathansnathan]

[SGKent]

To those who are pressing your pedals in - I used to love you guys cause I got your motors often with bad thrust surfaces. Below 10 F you probably do need to push it in but let it out once it starts. SIMBO is in England. Last time I checked the Gulf Stream flowed by England and they don't see the kind of weather you see Wildthings. Hsi temps are in the 40's when cold. From what I read, their 100 year low is like 20 - 27F. We have that here every night here in the Sacramento Valley this time of the year.

Wildthings - your real problem is that progressive you have on the bus. My 1971 with a stock carb and my 1977 with stock FI had no problem at 10F and above turning the trans in neutral when cold once it started. That is what the fast idle circuit is for.

Also - in 400,000 miles on my 1971, I never wore out a starter. Solenoids yes, starters no.
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[Wildthings]

[SGKent]

[Stuartzickefoose]

my bus idle doesnt change enough to matter when i let the clutch out. i let my foot off right away after burning up my last TO bearing to quick (from other issues) so now i get my foot off the clutch as soon as i can. i have had to many cars start in gear to not put my foot on the clutch....so ill take the risk and fix it when i rebuild it myself.
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[ncstagger]

[Hoody]

Sounds like your relief valve is gummed up. Check the set up....wallls get worn...springs lose their tension.

[Wildthings]

[Wasted youth]

Anyone ever found out what happend with the original theme of this thread? Did the slow starter/difficult start when cold problem get resolved What was the problem?

[nathansnathan]

I tried it without pushing in the clutch this morning and gave up on attempt #5. It's not worth a dead battery or all the wear to the engine turning it around with the starter before oil pressure builds. It read 40F on the dd cht guage.

It would be nice to retard ignition timing at start up based on temperature, or to have a choke, or an in-cab idle adjustment. If there were a plug by my parking, I'd have a oil pan heater.