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Montehms 67 Prairie Square
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MonT3
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

With my leg injury feeling better, I got back into the garage and pulled the door panels off. Separated the panel from the material and worked on getting the new panels which are thinner back on. These will flex enough to allow me to affix them to the door without issue.
Tomorrow I'll install them along with the weather liner as well. I'm also going to swap out my fuel sending unit as it's not reading properly or at all. Maybe if all goes well, I'll tackle the wiper motor ground.
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MonT3
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:22 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

I'm looking at doing a few minor upgrades to my motor. Any recommendations on a Petronix ignition and coil setup on a 1641?

Thanks in advance.
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69 Notchback
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

I'm not to familiar with the electronic ignition so I kept it old school. I have herd its the way to go and some day hope to switch over as well. Just an upgrade or are your points giving you greaf?
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

69 Notchback wrote:
I'm not to familiar with the electronic ignition so I kept it old school. I have herd its the way to go and some day hope to switch over as well. Just an upgrade or are your points giving you greaf?


I'm not familiar with them either, but I do know IF you decide to switch over to one, be sure you carry a set of points and a condensor in the glove box. Surprised
As a direct result of that, I've kept my Notch, and my wife's Fastback with points, and check them every so often. In fact on my wife's car (back when I owned it and it had carbs), I forgot to check them after about 5 or 6 years, and 1 day it was running a little rough, so I did check them and adjusted the gap then. I think it's been almost that long since I last checked them again (we've had the car since July 4th 1989). I guess I should get into more of a habit of checking them when I do an oil change, other than checking just the timing every so often. But they rarely need anything, so I don't pay them that much attention. Now that you mention it, when I get back home I'm going to have to check them in the Notch. The last time they got adjusted was June 2010, right after I brought it out of hibernation to go to the 2010 Invasion in Missouri. Surprised
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
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MonT3
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

The reason I asked was due to a drive I tool where the car stalled-out after a 30 minute drive in and around town. I'd slow down coming up to a light or a stop sign, press the clutch, brake and the idle would dwindle down to cutting off. I have to start it again and take off. I admit I need to get it timed and tuned so I'm thinking I could upgrade the points and coil with a Petronix setup, get it timed and tuned up. Maybe I should get the timing and tuning done first before jumping into this upgrade... Sad

The idling dropping the way it did caught me by surprise. On top of all that, I have a leak I need to track down. I think it's from the valve covers but am not sure. I'm hoping I can get it to a lift to get under it and have a good look.

Leo, I have an electronic ignition (hot spark electronic ignition kit) in it now with an aftermarket coil. Here's the link to it. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=397477

Bob, In my Emergency bin, I have standard points in there as a backup.
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 5:05 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

MonT3 wrote:
The reason I asked was due to a drive I tool where the car stalled-out after a 30 minute drive in and around town. I'd slow down coming up to a light or a stop sign, press the clutch, brake and the idle would dwindle down to cutting off. I have to start it again and take off. I admit I need to get it timed and tuned so I'm thinking I could upgrade the points and coil with a Petronix setup, get it timed and tuned up. Maybe I should get the timing and tuning done first before jumping into this upgrade... Sad

The idling dropping the way it did caught me by surprise. On top of all that, I have a leak I need to track down. I think it's from the valve covers but am not sure. I'm hoping I can get it to a lift to get under it and have a good look.

Bob, In my Emergency bin, I have standard points in there as a backup.


Monte, this definitely sounds like a tuning issue. I'd take care of it first, then if you decide to go with electronic points do so. But 1st, investigate which is the best unit/set up to go with. There are good ones and crappy ones out there like a lot of new parts. Keep in mind that new doesn't always equate to better. Shocked
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Tram wrote:
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MonT3
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
MonT3 wrote:
The reason I asked was due to a drive I tool where the car stalled-out after a 30 minute drive in and around town. I'd slow down coming up to a light or a stop sign, press the clutch, brake and the idle would dwindle down to cutting off. I have to start it again and take off. I admit I need to get it timed and tuned so I'm thinking I could upgrade the points and coil with a Petronix setup, get it timed and tuned up. Maybe I should get the timing and tuning done first before jumping into this upgrade... Sad

The idling dropping the way it did caught me by surprise. On top of all that, I have a leak I need to track down. I think it's from the valve covers but am not sure. I'm hoping I can get it to a lift to get under it and have a good look.

Bob, In my Emergency bin, I have standard points in there as a backup.


Monte, this definitely sounds like a tuning issue. I'd take care of it first, then if you decide to go with electronic points do so. But 1st, investigate which is the best unit/set up to go with. There are good ones and crappy ones out there like a lot of new parts. Keep in mind that new doesn't always equate to better. Shocked


Will look into tuning it first and totally understand about the researching the parts before jumping on it. Before I can get to the tuning, I have to fix my sprinkler system as it's been giving me some grief. I have a cracked pipe near the house and that needs to be taken care of today.

More to follow on the tuning. Thanks Bobnotch!
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69 Notchback
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

Get her tuned Mont, after all the hard work over the winter months its time to roll that beauty!!!!! Cool
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Clatter
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

You get to arrive at the fun part now! Very Happy

All that body/interior/drivetrain stuff is so you can play with motors!!

Ever see this build?
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115287&hilit=wally

If you have any older 'points eliminator' kit (Except for those cheapie Mag Fire or the like) they are likely better quality than the newer stuff.
Quality has gone down, down, down, on ignition parts, even with Pertronix, which used to be a better quality example.
Even great American names like Mallory have gone to Shit/China..

As long as you don't have that dreadful stock points/condenser in your car, you should be way ahead.
Sorry, but my idea of fun is not having my car run crappy every 4-6,000 miles, then do an ignition tune up, and feel like I accomplished something.
Sure, when you finally get your points replaced and dialed in, it runs great and feels good, but me personally, I'd rather have it just keep running great all the time.
To each his own..
And, yes, I carry another module with me just in case.
Electronic ignitions almost always work, or not, not 'kinda works', like points do after a few thousand miles.

I had one of those old Crane XR systems for like 15 years and 150K miles in a few different cars, and it just won't die!
(The module is in its own separate box/heat sink, not in the hot/vibrating distributor body BTW)

So,
If you got one that works, get it dialed in, Daddy-o! Cool

Ranting now, I'll stop...
If you want to talk building a SwEEt motor for your type 3, I'll prattle on for hours on that one, make no doubt..

Steve lives vicariously, once more, thru Monte, whose car is together, beautiful, and running....
Send me an invoice! Laughing
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MonT3
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:05 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

69 Notchback wrote:
Get her tuned Mont, after all the hard work over the winter months its time to roll that beauty!!!!! Cool

My thoughts on upgrading what I have are on hold now until I after getting the motor tuned. Hopefully I can get it done this coming couple of days off. Been busy with replacing a cracked pipe in my sprinkler system and also tearing a shelf down in the garage. Making room in the event I pull the motor
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:25 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
You get to arrive at the fun part now! Very Happy

All that body/interior/drivetrain stuff is so you can play with motors!!

Ever see this build?
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115287&hilit=wally

If you have any older 'points eliminator' kit (Except for those cheapie Mag Fire or the like) they are likely better quality than the newer stuff.
Quality has gone down, down, down, on ignition parts, even with Pertronix, which used to be a better quality example.
Even great American names like Mallory have gone to Shit/China..

As long as you don't have that dreadful stock points/condenser in your car, you should be way ahead.
Sorry, but my idea of fun is not having my car run crappy every 4-6,000 miles, then do an ignition tune up, and feel like I accomplished something.
Sure, when you finally get your points replaced and dialed in, it runs great and feels good, but me personally, I'd rather have it just keep running great all the time.
To each his own..
And, yes, I carry another module with me just in case.
Electronic ignitions almost always work, or not, not 'kinda works', like points do after a few thousand miles.

I had one of those old Crane XR systems for like 15 years and 150K miles in a few different cars, and it just won't die!
(The module is in its own separate box/heat sink, not in the hot/vibrating distributor body BTW)

So,
If you got one that works, get it dialed in, Daddy-o! Cool

Ranting now, I'll stop...
If you want to talk building a SwEEt motor for your type 3, I'll prattle on for hours on that one, make no doubt..

Steve lives vicariously, once more, thru Monte, whose car is together, beautiful, and running....
Send me an invoice! Laughing

I looked thru the thread and a turbo’d out motor is not me. Would like a solid driver. I want to get back to learning the motor some more so I can do things on my own. I think a creature such as the build in the link is too much for my taste.
I hope to get back into the car this weekend break I have barring any new issues that happen to pop up. Want to finish up a few minor things on the car and work on a relay set up for my additional lighting on the car as well as a side project. Then onto my trailer.
I’m planning another trip home to visit my folks and drop some things off there. Maybe this time I can swing by. Dad always has some fun detail for me when I come to visit. I think I’ll be replacing a roof on the shed this time around as he’s hinted at it.
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

MonT3 wrote:
Bobnotch wrote:
MonT3 wrote:
The reason I asked was due to a drive I tool where the car stalled-out after a 30 minute drive in and around town. I'd slow down coming up to a light or a stop sign, press the clutch, brake and the idle would dwindle down to cutting off. I have to start it again and take off. I admit I need to get it timed and tuned so I'm thinking I could upgrade the points and coil with a Petronix setup, get it timed and tuned up. Maybe I should get the timing and tuning done first before jumping into this upgrade... Sad

The idling dropping the way it did caught me by surprise. On top of all that, I have a leak I need to track down. I think it's from the valve covers but am not sure. I'm hoping I can get it to a lift to get under it and have a good look.

Bob, In my Emergency bin, I have standard points in there as a backup.


Monte, this definitely sounds like a tuning issue. I'd take care of it first, then if you decide to go with electronic points do so. But 1st, investigate which is the best unit/set up to go with. There are good ones and crappy ones out there like a lot of new parts. Keep in mind that new doesn't always equate to better. Shocked


Will look into tuning it first and totally understand about the researching the parts before jumping on it. Before I can get to the tuning, I have to fix my sprinkler system as it's been giving me some grief. I have a cracked pipe near the house and that needs to be taken care of today.

More to follow on the tuning. Thanks Bobnotch!


You know, another option might be to contact Jim Adney about 1 of the couple of Tiger CD ingintion boxes that he still might have available. According to him, the points just trigger the CD unit (so no wear on the points themselves). And IF the box fails, you just plug the condensor wire back in, and you're back on your way. Jim swears by them, and even has 1 in his 71 Squareback that has seen many road trips. Very Happy
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

That's a thought, Bob...and you can still buy these kinds of units brand new, here on the Samba. If it ever fails, flip a switch and you're back using your conventional system:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1557647

I've toyed with the idea, but haven't pulled the trigger.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

Thanks for the info guys, I'm getting ready to pull the motor today and hopefully get that thing tuned up proper within the following couple of days. Look forward to it as there's some new to learn each time.
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

And she's back out again...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Hopefully this time she gets dialed in proper. Think I'll repaint my generator as well and do some more cleaning before the tune up.
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

Well, my mind has been wandering and have been taking a look at the underside of the car mainly looking at the transmission and what it's going to take to remove it...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Why? With the engine removed, I'm half way to replacing the nose cone on my trans as I don't have reverse switch/sensor. I've been eyeballing this 67 trans I pulled but am feeling a bit intimidated in getting this trans removed from the sub-frame and axles so I can gain access to the nose cone. I took a look at the process of removing the cone in the blue book. I didn't read if there was fluid in that chamber area or not so what can I expected in removing the cone to do a swap? Also, in doing this swap, what items are needed in the replacement? gasket, bushing and seal? Anything else?
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

OK, taking this as you have a known-good trans in your car,
But it doesn't have the reverse-light switch like you want.
So you plan on swapping out the nose-cone.

You will have more fun if you pull the whole thing free from the car; trans with axles and all.
Un-bolt it at the axle castings, where they attach to the spring plate.
The rear brakes will have to come off, and the backing plates stay with the car if you don't want to open the brake system up.

A lot of work for reverse lights; that nobody is likely to see or notice.
Still, I totally understand wanting things right!

Reason I ask, is you are sure that your other trans seals are 100%?
The axle boots tend to crack and leak with age, and are a common replacement item.
Albeit not very fun to do..
Might do them when it's out?
Sometimes when you remove the trans, the axle boots flex farther than usual use, and now they decide to crack as a result.

Also trans mounts are often shot.
Not sure you got them already?

Swapping the nose-cone is likely to be leaky/messy with the trans full.
if you just put a fresh $85 gallon of Swepco 201 in it, I can appreciate saving it.
Best to drain into a known clean container, then pour it back in after you are all done.
Otherwise, use the opportunity to change the trans oil.

My own preference for changing a nosecone is having the trans up-ended, resting on the motor mount flange/bellhousing, but a on couple of 2x4s, lying so the input shaft doesn't get bashed, and the flange doesn't get nicked.
If the nose is up, you have a better chance of getting the gasket surface clean and flat and not contaminated with dirt, oil, or oily dirt.
Bible says the gasket goes on dry. YMMV.

Best to use a new nose cone gasket. Nice to have a couple of those on-hand.
The hockey-stick seal in the nose cone is good to replace if you are feeling ambitious.
Where the hockey stick attaches to the shift coupler can get a burr.
File the burr down before puling the nosecone to avoid scratching the bushing.
Check the slop/play of the hockey stick in the bushing in the nose cone (without the seal). There should be a bit of 'feel-able' play/slop, but not wallered out.
Most real trans shops re-bush nose cones on all rebuilds.
92 3/4% of people would never look twice at a nose cone bushing or seal, and just stab 'em in..
Entire nose cone assemblies are available brand new for not that much, if you really want to nut it.

Many consider an input shaft seal on the clutch end of things a maintenance item.
Far many more do not.
Check in your clutch/bellhousing area for trans oil (it smells different) and make your own decision..

If you know the trans is quiet and shifts nice thru all of the gears already, that's a bonus, and dressing it up pretty to keep it clean and well-mounted is a noble cause.


oh, and, if you drive out to see your family, bring that bin full o' motor parts!
We could have you a motor in a weekend.. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

Clatter wrote:
OK, taking this as you have a known-good trans in your car,
But it doesn't have the reverse-light switch like you want.
So you plan on swapping out the nose-cone.

You will have more fun if you pull the whole thing free from the car; trans with axles and all.
Un-bolt it at the axle castings, where they attach to the spring plate.
The rear brakes will have to come off, and the backing plates stay with the car if you don't want to open the brake system up.

A lot of work for reverse lights; that nobody is likely to see or notice.
Still, I totally understand wanting things right!

Reason I ask, is you are sure that your other trans seals are 100%?
The axle boots tend to crack and leak with age, and are a common replacement item.
Albeit not very fun to do..
Might do them when it's out?
Sometimes when you remove the trans, the axle boots flex farther than usual use, and now they decide to crack as a result.

Also trans mounts are often shot.
Not sure you got them already?

Swapping the nose-cone is likely to be leaky/messy with the trans full.
if you just put a fresh $85 gallon of Swepco 201 in it, I can appreciate saving it.
Best to drain into a known clean container, then pour it back in after you are all done.
Otherwise, use the opportunity to change the trans oil.

My own preference for changing a nosecone is having the trans up-ended, resting on the motor mount flange/bellhousing, but a on couple of 2x4s, lying so the input shaft doesn't get bashed, and the flange doesn't get nicked.
If the nose is up, you have a better chance of getting the gasket surface clean and flat and not contaminated with dirt, oil, or oily dirt.
Bible says the gasket goes on dry. YMMV.

Best to use a new nose cone gasket. Nice to have a couple of those on-hand.
The hockey-stick seal in the nose cone is good to replace if you are feeling ambitious.
Where the hockey stick attaches to the shift coupler can get a burr.
File the burr down before puling the nosecone to avoid scratching the bushing.
Check the slop/play of the hockey stick in the bushing in the nose cone (without the seal). There should be a bit of 'feel-able' play/slop, but not wallered out.
Most real trans shops re-bush nose cones on all rebuilds.
92 3/4% of people would never look twice at a nose cone bushing or seal, and just stab 'em in..
Entire nose cone assemblies are available brand new for not that much, if you really want to nut it.

Many consider an input shaft seal on the clutch end of things a maintenance item.
Far many more do not.
Check in your clutch/bellhousing area for trans oil (it smells different) and make your own decision..

If you know the trans is quiet and shifts nice thru all of the gears already, that's a bonus, and dressing it up pretty to keep it clean and well-mounted is a noble cause.


oh, and, if you drive out to see your family, bring that bin full o' motor parts!
We could have you a motor in a weekend.. Wink

Thanks for responding clatter. My trans setup is different than the one in the pic above. I have CVs on the axles so I think dropping the trans wouldn’t require the whole axles and such to be brought removed.

After posting last night, I found a video of someone removing a nose cone from a bus trans and it leaked so I thought I have fluids to deal with. The process you described with up-ending the trans and doing the swap that way was the method I was looking at doing. I don’t have the replacement gaskets, seals and whatever else I need to make this happen. Is it a lot of work for something I won’t see? Sure. Will I get the functionality of shifting into reverse and seeing the light come on? Maybe. The little dude on my left shoulder holding a wrench is telling to drop it and go of it. But the other little dude on the on the right shoulder holding the keys to the car is telling me to just put the motor back in after it’s done and drive it!
I’m now on the fence with this. Maybe I should just run a button like I was planning on before that trans showed up. Decisions.

It would be too awesome to bring that bin out. Unfortunately, when I’m at my parents, I’m on limited time and I have a lot to take care of as their up there in age so they can’t deal with everything so I take on the larger issues for them. That would be cool to meet up and throw a motor together in a weekend though.
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

I say the devil on your shoulder is the one saying "be lazy, leave the nose-cone like it is".

The angel wants everything right..!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! Smile

Seriously, switching a nose-cone is EASY once you have the motor out.
The CV bolts are the only real 'labor' involved..

I keep destroying late 3:88 SSC 'lottery' transaxles with the Chainsaw 1914 in my Beetle,
And it needs the nose-cone swapped in order to make the switch.
Could do it now with a blind-fold on.
Would send you a nose-cone gasket from my stack of them, but used them all up! Embarassed

Just make sure to file any burrs off your hockey-stick first, and you'll be fine.

I know how intimidating 'opening up a trans' can be, but this ain't that.


Best place to store parts for your car that you 'want to run some day' is in place, on the car!
Otherwise, they can get lost in the shuffle..
Ask me how I know.. Embarassed Embarassed
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13247
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PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Montehms 67 Prairie Square Reply with quote

you know there are other type of reverse light switches, right? there is the kind that goes on the back of the speedometer (It takes a little bit to kick the light on) and the other type that attaches to the linkage

just sayin...


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