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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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 Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Could just be my car,
But,
It did seem that the gap all along the bottom of the doors was a bit bigger than all the other gaps at the top and sides.
FWIW,
Might pay to find an OG car to look at... |
This is the gap on mine, no evidence the door has ever been taken off. It's slightly bigger on the bottom, I'd say it's a bit better than a 1/4 inch.
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I measured mine (doors have never come off this car) and it's 1/4" from edge to edge on both sides. Bob's got a good eye! |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Could just be my car,
But,
It did seem that the gap all along the bottom of the doors was a bit bigger than all the other gaps at the top and sides.
FWIW,
Might pay to find an OG car to look at... |
Clatter, it just looks like too much is there. I don't think the gaps are that big though.
| bobnorman wrote: |
| Clatter wrote: |
Could just be my car,
But,
It did seem that the gap all along the bottom of the doors was a bit bigger than all the other gaps at the top and sides.
FWIW,
Might pay to find an OG car to look at... |
This is the gap on mine, no evidence the door has ever been taken off. It's slightly bigger on the bottom, I'd say it's a bit better than a 1/4 inch.
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Bobnorman, Thanks for the pic. the gap doesn't look like what I have going on at the moment.
| ataraxia wrote: |
| I measured mine (doors have never come off this car) and it's 1/4" from edge to edge on both sides. Bob's got a good eye! |
I appreciate everyone's comments. I'm gonna give it another pass to trim off some more. I may be able to move it up an 1/8 to 3/16ths. Compared to what the driver's side was, what I have here is too much. I'll remove the piece and get it trimmed and tacked back on with another test tonight.
I'm happy with it but overall nervous with the final test. I put the extended lip on this side and it takes care of that overhang that the driver's side has. I have that lip cut but haven't added it yet. That one is a little longer which will need a little trimming once the skins are on for good.
Bobnotch, I was planning on pulling the 3in angled cutting tool out as I have been doing most of my cutting with the 4 1/2in grinder with cutting wheels to deal with things. I still need to work the pie-cuts on the front to close the front gaps under the lower hinge. Maybe after the fit test when I weld everything up.
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MonT3
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
| Clatter wrote: |
Could just be my car,
But,
It did seem that the gap all along the bottom of the doors was a bit bigger than all the other gaps at the top and sides.
FWIW,
Might pay to find an OG car to look at... |
Clatter, it just looks like too much is there. I don't think the gaps are that big though.
| bobnorman wrote: |
| Clatter wrote: |
Could just be my car,
But,
It did seem that the gap all along the bottom of the doors was a bit bigger than all the other gaps at the top and sides.
FWIW,
Might pay to find an OG car to look at... |
This is the gap on mine, no evidence the door has ever been taken off. It's slightly bigger on the bottom, I'd say it's a bit better than a 1/4 inch.
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Bobnorman, Thanks for the pic. the gap doesn't look like what I have going on at the moment.
| ataraxia wrote: |
| I measured mine (doors have never come off this car) and it's 1/4" from edge to edge on both sides. Bob's got a good eye! |
I appreciate everyone's comments. I'm gonna give it another pass to trim off some more. I may be able to move it up an 1/8 to 3/16ths. Compared to what the driver's side was, what I have here is too much. I'll remove the piece and get it trimmed and tacked back on with another test tonight.
I'm happy with it but overall nervous with the final test. I put the extended lip on this side and it takes care of that overhang that the driver's side has. I have that lip cut but haven't added it yet. That one is a little longer which will need a little trimming once the skins are on for good.
Bobnotch, I was planning on pulling the 3in angled cutting tool out as I have been doing most of my cutting with the 4 1/2in grinder with cutting wheels to deal with things. I still need to work the pie-cuts on the front to close the front gaps under the lower hinge. Maybe after the fit test when I weld everything up. |
I'd try and hold the bottom gap to around 6mm (or a 1/4 inch), and then make sure the pan still bolts up (with the door on). That'll tell you what you need to do (why you're tacking it first).
Going off your pics from the previous page, and Bob Norman's, you're looking at wanting about a 6mm gap along the bottom of the door. Keep in mind that VW tried to keep a consistant gap all the way around the door. Some cars got that, and some didn't (it was the 60's/early 70's afterall). If you can get that, you should be good go. 
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Looking much better now. I've made my adjustment and removed 1/8in. The front will need to come up just a pinch and the rear I need to trim at the end. Altogether I closed the gap I had. The front corner piece is also closed but I need to work it in a little better.
Next up... rear lower corners.
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MonT3
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
Looking much better now. I've made my adjustment and removed 1/8in. The front will need to come up just a pinch and the rear I need to trim at the end. Altogether I closed the gap I had. The front corner piece is also closed but I need to work it in a little better.
Next up... rear lower corners. |
That looks much better. Keep in mind that raising the front (trimming some off under the lower door hinge) will close up some of the rear gap (as it's tapered right now), so you might have to drop the rear a tiny bit.  Otherwise it looks good. 
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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supersuk
Samba Member
Joined: December 20, 2010
Posts: 958
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:22 am Post subject: |
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You should test fit the front and rear fender if you can. When I welded in the patch panel for the rear portion of the heater channel, I didn't test fit the rear fender and realized that installed it a little too high. Now I need to use a 1/8" spacer between the heater channel and the rear fender bolt on the bottom.
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| MonT3 wrote: |
Looking much better now. I've made my adjustment and removed 1/8in. The front will need to come up just a pinch and the rear I need to trim at the end. Altogether I closed the gap I had. The front corner piece is also closed but I need to work it in a little better.
Next up... rear lower corners. |
That looks much better. Keep in mind that raising the front (trimming some off under the lower door hinge) will close up some of the rear gap (as it's tapered right now), so you might have to drop the rear a tiny bit. Otherwise it looks good. |
I’ll spend some time when the final install takes place making sure both doors are sitting with relatively the same spacing. I have a little wiggle room with the rear as I have a little overlap that may become flush if more adjusting is needed. And of course the lower center I plan on raising a little too. Thanks for the comments and recommendations.
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MonT3
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| supersuk wrote: |
| You should test fit the front and rear fender if you can. When I welded in the patch panel for the rear portion of the heater channel, I didn't test fit the rear fender and realized that installed it a little too high. Now I need to use a 1/8" spacer between the heater channel and the rear fender bolt on the bottom. |
Thanks for the recommendations as I didn’t think about fitting the rear fenders on as that area is so flat. But the fronts? Really didn’t think about that one. I’ll Pull them as well when I test fit the pan and check the lower rear portion against the front of the rocker.
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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I've been staring at his area for a while now and need some ideas on how to go about dealing the replacing the corner.
My thoughts at the moment is to remove these pieces and work the inside portion then placing the piece of the panel back on and spot-welding it back on.
These pieces are my replacement pieces...
Any thoughts are appreciated
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LOW N SLOW66
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2013
Posts: 71
Location: Billings, Montana
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| Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Well looking at your replacements panels , I would say I fixed mine the hard way! I think the method of removing the spot welds of the outer panels wouldn't be a bad way to go, it will definitely look good, or you could just trim the replacement to match what you cut out and just weld the seam, either way you got some work to do! Keep it up though, it's guys like you that inspire us to get out and work on our projects |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
I've been staring at his area for a while now and need some ideas on how to go about dealing the replacing the corner.
My thoughts at the moment is to remove these pieces and work the inside portion then placing the piece of the panel back on and spot-welding it back on.
These pieces are my replacement pieces...
Any thoughts are appreciated |
I think that'll work. You might want to do any sand blasting while you have them off too, as it'll help you with any access you need (on the inner surfaces). Hopefully you have enough metal to go up the back on that 1 side.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7544
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:50 am Post subject: |
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It looked to me like the best way to go about that area was to drill all the spot-welds out to get the whole side panel off.
Once you have the entire side off, the things in there should be accessible.
At least relatively so...
Mine's going to get the treatment, even though there's no visible rust in that area.
Rust likes to hide in places you can't see.
I don't see any other way to inspect it, get the old seam sealer out of there, get the new sealer in, completely and effectively, so it doesn't rust again.
It also seems like it would be good to be able to blast up inside the rear cooling ductwork that hides behind (in front of) the apron.
(Unless you are taking the rear apron off)
You got a ways to to with that little project.
Keep plugging away, and I'll cheer for you here in the stands with my plastic cup of yellow beer!
(Pumps fist into air)
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| LOW N' SLOW66 wrote: |
Well looking at your replacements panels , I would say I fixed mine the hard way! I think the method of removing the spot welds of the outer panels wouldn't be a bad way to go, it will definitely look good, or you could just trim the replacement to match what you cut out and just weld the seam, either way you got some work to do! Keep it up though, it's guys like you that inspire us to get out and work on our projects |
Those corners are hard to come by that haven’t been rusted thru or in the process of it. Thank for the compliment but like you I get motivated off what others are doing as well as learning from how people are working the issues they’re faced with. Always interesting to see and read how problems are approached and resolved. Keep at it Low N' Slow!
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MonT3
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the comments and recommendations. I’m starting this piece of the project tonight so the drill will do battle with the spot welds and I hope to have these pieces removed the night is over for me. I’m going to remove the small outer panel pieces on my replacements as well. Good point being made with getting the inner portions of the duct blasted out as well as removing seam sealer from any areas. I’ve been doing that as I come across it on the inside, especially in the wheel wells As for the rear apron, I have a questionable area that has filler on it. I don’t know the extent of the damage to the area but by looking at the lower portion of the apron, it was bent at some point and looking at the opposite side, I see small holes drilled with dried filler seeping thru it. That should be an interesting time.
When I cut the apron off the donor rear-end, I was surprised at how it was in installed. Removing the section will not be an easy thing. Should have some update later tonight. Thanks again for the info guys. Beer and encouragement is always a good thing!
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22422
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| Clatter wrote: |
Rust likes to hide in places you can't see.
I don't see any other way to inspect it, get the old seam sealer out of there, get the new sealer in, completely and effectively, so it doesn't rust again.
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I personally like to remove the old seam sealer, sandblast, then epoxy prime, then apply new seam sealer. By doing it in a different order, you seal the gap/joint with epoxy, in case the new seam sealer fails.
I only say that, as in most cases the old sealer has already failed, and rust is forming in the gaps the seam sealer was supposed to seal. 
Monte, the rear apron is a little work all by itself, but nothing compared to what you've already undertaken on this project. You should have no trouble replacing it.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Removing the panels went well. I was glad I did that as there is some pitting I wouldn't have found if the panels weren't removed. Looking forward to this project.
In case anyone wanted to know what the inner cavity behind the rear apron looks like. You can see some dents and dings on the apron...
Tomorrow will be fun!
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Got a better look at these corners today and began to trim my pieces down. I marked and cut so here it went...
I thought I had the panel trimmed pretty well. Next up to trim the replacement piece...
Somewhere along the way, I made a mistake. I'll have to patch a piece in to make up for the shortfall.
But the other side came out awesome!
I encountered a lot of rust in the bumper bracket area. I've elected to hold off on welding these pieces back in until I can get this area blasted and primed. Any thoughts on going with thicker gauge metal when I replace these areas to accommodate a hitch connection later on?
Also, here's my rear apron. Notice the bulge on the right side...
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vwfanatic67
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2003
Posts: 427
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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That buldge is where I think the bondo was not mixed right or it reacted to the exhaust heat. It popped up 6 months or so after I got it painted. It was my daily driver then so I didn't have time to get it repaired. Your really doing a great job with the square. Good to see it in good hands.
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MonT3
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