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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Nice to see you tearing in like that.
Way to Gidder Dun!
You are correct that the two top sets of holes in your front apron are not supposed to be there.
John (racoguy) and others advocate doing rough metal work with car blasted and epoxy-sealed.
The blastng shows you exactly what needs done, afterall.
Even though i did take their advice; my car is now blasted and sealed, and still needs quite a bit of metal work,
It does give me pause.
Both hammer/dolly work, and anything with welding/grinding will damage the epoxy, and potentially cause issues with adhesion of other products later. That means that you will have to spot-blast and/or strip with sanding or wheels before re-applying epoxy when done, not a big deal, but work, and maybe not perfect in the pits and crevices.
So,
it's kind of a balancing act as to when you would want to blast.
I feel like i kind of 'jumped the gun' and blasted mine before it was ready.
It really would have been better to have all of the metal work 100% before blast/epoxy - at least in theory.
Yours needs more metal work than mine.
And it's starting to flash, you say.
best get some epoxy on it.
Or,
With as cheap as you got that thing blasted for,
Maybe they would do a final dust-off for cheap?
I know that, like with my front clip, that second blasting session gives you a chance to really get stuff clean.
And add more time/money to your build!
My friend calls it "Paralysis by analysis".
I'm putting the 'anal' back in analysis! _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Clatter wrote: |
Nice to see you tearing in like that.
Way to Gidder Dun!
You are correct that the two top sets of holes in your front apron are not supposed to be there.
John (racoguy) and others advocate doing rough metal work with car blasted and epoxy-sealed.
The blastng shows you exactly what needs done, afterall.
Even though i did take their advice; my car is now blasted and sealed, and still needs quite a bit of metal work,
It does give me pause.
Both hammer/dolly work, and anything with welding/grinding will damage the epoxy, and potentially cause issues with adhesion of other products later. That means that you will have to spot-blast and/or strip with sanding or wheels before re-applying epoxy when done, not a big deal, but work, and maybe not perfect in the pits and crevices.
So,
it's kind of a balancing act as to when you would want to blast.
I feel like i kind of 'jumped the gun' and blasted mine before it was ready.
It really would have been better to have all of the metal work 100% before blast/epoxy - at least in theory.
Yours needs more metal work than mine.
And it's starting to flash, you say.
best get some epoxy on it.
Or,
With as cheap as you got that thing blasted for,
Maybe they would do a final dust-off for cheap?
I know that, like with my front clip, that second blasting session gives you a chance to really get stuff clean.
And add more time/money to your build!
My friend calls it "Paralysis by analysis".
I'm putting the 'anal' back in analysis! |
I hear you with having a treat surface then do work on it again and having to re-treat it. I was going to push to epoxy then felt I'd be wasting time to in grinding and cleaning things up again to do some metal work. I was getting tired of seeing that shell in multiple colors and it became a hunt to chase down issues rather than focusing on the obvious ones. I was glad it got blasted as I didn't know I have all those holes in the duct area.
I still have the rear wheel well to do along with the A pillars up front then a couple of dings. Close up the holes as soon as I get in the garage and start on the grinding the rear of the air duct where slipped in that piece of metal. I have two other patches I have to get in as well so yeah, my work is cut-out (hahahaaa ) for me.
I also have my final seasonal grass cutting to do, blow the sprinkler system out as the weather is changing up here. last week we got some snow with the front that swept thru but it didn't stick around. Warming up this week then starts cooling off.
Tomorrow I pick up my doors, fenders, hatch and hood. Had them done with Soda and Sand. Will post pics when they arrive. Been reading threads on products to use to wash the soda off. Lots of opinions on that. I Just hope I have no surprises. _________________ MonT3
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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MonT3 wrote: |
Today my main focus was to close up the lower portion of the rear of the shell so I can start my re-assembly of the rear apron. the center piece was pretty pitted on both sides so trying to close that area up was a pain. So I cut it out and replaced it with a fresh piece of metal.
And some grinding...
I do have one question on the front though. I have two sets of hoes for the license plate. I take it the lower set if the correct ones? I know, stupid question as I suspect the lower ones are the plate mounting holes. I also have a few spots where it's flashing too.
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Yeah, I'd just try and blend as best as you can. Smooth out the front edge by the cooling boot, as you'll have your hands in that area a few times over the next few years. Once the engine and exhaust are back in, you won't see much of it though.
Yes, the upper holes are add on. You need to fill them, and blend them. That's 1 of those places where you weld it from behind, with a copper plate on the outside. Then you just blend the outside in smooth and you're done.
As for the flash rust, you'll need to clean that off soon. This is why I like to blast it, then seal it. The longer you wait to seal it, the more flash rust you get. And in my area, that flash rusting starts in about 2 hours. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Clatter wrote: |
So,
it's kind of a balancing act as to when you would want to blast.
I feel like i kind of 'jumped the gun' and blasted mine before it was ready.
It really would have been better to have all of the metal work 100% before blast/epoxy - at least in theory.
Yours needs more metal work than mine.
And it's starting to flash, you say.
best get some epoxy on it.
Or,
With as cheap as you got that thing blasted for,
Maybe they would do a final dust-off for cheap? |
I don't really think you jumped the gun Steve, as you had a good chunk of it ready for blasting and sealing. Monte was pretty close too, but he probably could have finished up a little more of his open gaps. But, that's the key, getting it sealed back up. I normally work a section at a time, blasting it, sealing it, and repairing what needs replacing, and sealing it again. It's a little more time and money to do it that way, but in the long run it allows you more freedom to work at a slower pace.
But, once Monte gets more of his holes closed off, maybe the blasting guy might be willing to hit it again, and mainly blast the new welded in sections, and any "flash rust". Then once it comes back, blow it all out, and seal it up. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Today was a pretty productive day. Starting off, I cleaned the welds I had made yesterday. With that, the driver corner was placed in after the bumper bracket panel was placed in. It was as crappy job so I had a lot of grinding to do on it. After setting that side up, I took the lower apron piece and did a few test fits to get a feel for how bad the newly placed piece needed to be manipulated into place. Wasn't that bad after all. After the test fit the I proceeded to fit the passenger side bumper bracket and get that side set up. Once tacked in, I test fit the rear apron once more and made minor adjustments. Then tacked in the lower apron. I have some more tacks to do and alot of grinding. Overall I think it's coming along pretty good.
I'm already thinking of removing that lower piece on the corner to ensure I can get primer and raptor underneath that center piece of metal...
Finishing this off should be fun...
To top off my day, my blaster hotrod buddy called and let me know my other pieces were done. A quick trip to pick them up. These were a combo of sand and soda. Although all pieces cleaned up really nice, it seems each piece has it's own issue except the hood. So the pieces were packed away for cleaning and primer which I'm hoping to get taken care of this coming weekend. Just a glimpse into some of the major issues...
Was told about this so I expected it...
Wasn't expecting this on the fender but thought there was a dent to deal with. Not this large though. will be interesting to deal with
didn't see the dent there...
My doors have some small holes on the underside. Will have to look those in more detail to get a feel on them.
Well off to bed as tomorrow brings the noise! _________________ MonT3
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:49 am Post subject: |
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MonT3 wrote: |
Today was a pretty productive day. Starting off, I cleaned the welds I had made yesterday. With that, the driver corner was placed in after the bumper bracket panel was placed in. It was as crappy job so I had a lot of grinding to do on it. After setting that side up, I took the lower apron piece and did a few test fits to get a feel for how bad the newly placed piece needed to be manipulated into place. Wasn't that bad after all. After the test fit the I proceeded to fit the passenger side bumper bracket and get that side set up. Once tacked in, I test fit the rear apron once more and made minor adjustments. Then tacked in the lower apron. I have some more tacks to do and alot of grinding. Overall I think it's coming along pretty good.
I'm already thinking of removing that lower piece on the corner to ensure I can get primer and raptor underneath that center piece of metal...
Finishing this off should be fun...
To top off my day, my blaster hotrod buddy called and let me know my other pieces were done. A quick trip to pick them up. These were a combo of sand and soda. Although all pieces cleaned up really nice, it seems each piece has it's own issue except the hood. So the pieces were packed away for cleaning and primer which I'm hoping to get taken care of this coming weekend. Just a glimpse into some of the major issues...
My doors have some small holes on the underside. Will have to look those in more detail to get a feel on them.
Well off to bed as tomorrow brings the noise! |
Yes, that does look good now.
As for that lower air duct part, I'd hunt up the top half if you have it laying around, and I'd tack it back onto the lower part before seperating that piece. Then you can weld it from behind on a flat table or some saw horses.
As for closing up the big hole, take your time fitting the panel in place, and tack it in all the way around, then put a tack weld between your existing tack welds, and continue to do that all the way around the opening. The key will be to not get it overly hot, or it'll warp. Maybe throw some tacks on it, then work on a fender for a few, then come back and toss some more tacks on it. That way it'll get a chance to cool, and it'll get welded up. Same applies to the rust in the bottom of the front fenders (I'd do them on saw horses), cut it out, fit some patches, and tack weld the holes closed using the method I described above.
I'll be the first to tell you that it'll seem to take forever, but in the long run it'll get done with minimal warpage, and if you can keep the tacks as flat as possible, you'll have less grinding to do.
It's looking good Monte. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Monte, all of those removables actually look pretty good.
I shpped around here in CA for the past few years,
And everything looks like that after blasting.
While your car itself is rusty,
All that other stuff is nice. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Made some progress on the rear apron in the last couple of days. I got the passenger corner in but still need to clean it up a bit...
That miss-cut piece slipped right in...Yeah!!
When tacking the apron piece in, I had to add a little pressure to close the small gap a little as it was just a tad larger. Here are some pics a few comments...
Once in, I spent a lot of time working the areas in. At some point, I did get carried away but ended up stopping, taking a break and getting back at it until I felt it was closed up...
Next was grind, grind, grind... And I still have some more to do but it's coming out fairly well I suppose.
Tomorrow is full of more grinding and cleaning up some welds then onto the Rear drivers wheel well. _________________ MonT3
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7527 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, way to dive right in and bang it out!
Looks good!
Wish my rear apron was that far along! _________________ Bus Motor Build
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Looks good Monte. You'll be surprised at how much better it'll look when it's all primed off, then painted. You're really gaining on it, and it won't be long before it's all welded up. Good job. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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68vwfasty Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2014 Posts: 277 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Yes it is looking good. And it is really cool when it gets primed because it is such a big milestone. You have put a lot of hours into that car and seeing it primed will be very rewarding. |
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bobnorman Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010 Posts: 1389 Location: Newfoundland
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Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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MonT3 wrote: |
Tomorrow is full of more grinding and cleaning up some welds then onto the Rear drivers wheel well. |
That apron turned out really great! This gives me hope for my bent and mashed up thing; when I'm able to get at it. Glad to see this coming along so well, you must be pretty happy with your progress _________________ Air does not freeze. Air does not boil.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=289807 |
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the comments. Last weekend was spent filling a few holes with the help of my buddy...
Also replaced the wheel well...
I tried to fill some deeper pits on the C-Pillars as you can see the metal was poor shape...
I need to place a piece of the C pillar and get that put in...
I have alot of grinding to do to clean these areas up as well as filling a few pitted areas that are near the seal area. Those spots have accepted the fill material without blowing a hole thru what's left. I'll get some before and after hopefully this weekend as I'm getting the C pillar piece to close that up so GRIND FEST is in effect this weekend!! _________________ MonT3
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260KMN Samba Member
Joined: January 17, 2014 Posts: 236 Location: Devon UK
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Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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Nice work Monte, keep it up. Looking good. |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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MonT3 wrote: |
Thanks for the comments. Last weekend was spent filling a few holes with the help of my buddy...
Also replaced the wheel well...
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Just need to teach him to weld now, and you guys can start on his car. But seriously, nice work, and a great way to get a new helper interested. You let him find your bad spots, he circles them, then you get to weld/grind them good. Sounds like a great way to get the work done in less time. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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Bobnotch. I'm not sure I'll be able to keep up with him. I used all the Free coupons for flashlight, screw driver set, .etc from HF, bought him a small tool box from there as well and gave it to him. That evening I caught him in the garage dismantling the front end of his power wheel truck. I just laughed and walked back inside the house. Reminded me of myself tearing into stuff and breaking it and having to take it to my dad to fix it.
Not much was done. Mainly looking how I'm going to attack these pillars. Separating the rotted inner pieces were easy. Both edges of the dash piece had some rot on them so when I made my lower end cut, I removed it.
Interesting how this inner rusted and rotted. Down the inner seam. But how the water get in there?
Going to be removing this marked section...
Passenger side. Was thinking on removing the whole inner skin. Thoughts?
These are the last pieces of metal that need to be replaced. The pieces I removed to do some work need to be put back on. Maybe tomorrow. _________________ MonT3
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'd try and find some donor pieces, if not then I'd just use what I have for templates, and make up some pieces from some new metal.
I think you already know what you need to do there, and you're just kinda looking for a second oppinion on how to attack it.
If I had to guess though, I'd say your car must have either gotten caught in a flood, or it was in a very damp enviroment. I only say that, as your car sure has some odd rust places, and most of them look like water damage. Well, that and that inner edge rust, is from water sitting in the "U" trim around the door opening. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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notchboy Samba Member
Joined: April 27, 2002 Posts: 22416 Location: Escondido CA
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Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like it sat under a tree in a rainforest - like up here
Thats a lot of work brother. My hats off for that awesome progress. _________________
t3kg wrote: |
OK, this thread is over. You win. |
Jason "notchboy" Weigel
1964 1500 S
1964 T34 S Convertible
1977 Westfalia Camper pop-top |
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Bobnotch wrote: |
Well, I'd try and find some donor pieces, if not then I'd just use what I have for templates, and make up some pieces from some new metal.
I think you already know what you need to do there, and you're just kinda looking for a second oppinion on how to attack it.
If I had to guess though, I'd say your car must have either gotten caught in a flood, or it was in a very damp enviroment. I only say that, as your car sure has some odd rust places, and most of them look like water damage. Well, that and that inner edge rust, is from water sitting in the "U" trim around the door opening. |
I have two sets of donors. One was just the inner skins and the other the whole A pillars. I was looking for a second opinion on whether to replace that pitted upper of just fill those places with some weld material.
I would guess the car sat for a long while and was exposed to the elements. Maybe the doo was left cracked or the seals failed after dry-rotting before being saved the first time around. I have no other sections to get after so I'm happy to these are the last sections to deal with before I start cleaning up the work. _________________ MonT3
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MonT3 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012 Posts: 1988 Location: South Dakota
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