Author |
Message |
tim_1911 Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2010 Posts: 60 Location: Texas
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:53 am Post subject: Basic Cylinder to case sealer question |
|
|
I've read that Permatex Aviation can be used to seal the cylinder to the case. My cylinders did not come with paper gaskets, and I've also read it is fine to leave them out. Where exactly do I need to put the sealer? On the sides of the cylinder or the bottom edge where it seats in the case?
This is a stock SP 1600. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
webebuggin Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2005 Posts: 215 Location: Clinton, Wa.
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
I,ve always used Permatex "Ultra Copper "sealant , under my cylinder bases,with good luck and no leaks.Just make sure the cyl. base and case spigot areas are super clean. A bead of this stuff,the width of the cyl. base is suffient,and when they are torqued down,u have a nice bead around the cyl. base.. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tim_1911 Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2010 Posts: 60 Location: Texas
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks. I figured you put it on the edge but wasn't sure. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
vgajames Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2002 Posts: 805 Location: Texas
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ultra Grey for me.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DarthWeber Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007 Posts: 7543 Location: Whittier,CA
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Whatever you use, use it sparingly. You don't need big gobs of the stuff oozing out from under the barrels. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tim_1911 Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2010 Posts: 60 Location: Texas
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
With such a small surface area I'm thinking a BB size drop would cover 1 cylinder. Am I close? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
DarthWeber Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007 Posts: 7543 Location: Whittier,CA
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
All you need is to run a bead about 1/16" wide all the way around the base of the cylinder where it seats against the case. Just snip off the very end of the plastic dispenser cone thingy on the tube of sealant. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SamT Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2009 Posts: 1761 Location: Rule, Tx
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
vgajames wrote: |
Ultra Grey for me.... |
1+ here works perfect.
I like to let the engine sit for atleast a day after installing the jug to let the silicone dry. I had one that I added oil and cranked within a couple hours of installing the jugs, and it seeped some.
Like said above, be extra carefull with sillycone if you don't have full flow flitration. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20365 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
tim_1911 wrote: |
With such a small surface area I'm thinking a BB size drop would cover 1 cylinder. Am I close? |
Yes.... Sealing surface only needs to be "wet" with sealer any thing more is a problem...
And there is nothing wrong with silicone RTV if uses sparingly (and correctly)...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tim_1911 Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2010 Posts: 60 Location: Texas
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Appreciate all the advise. I do not have a filter so I'll be very careful with the amount. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
RockCrusher Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2010 Posts: 4596 Location: Parkesburg, PA
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
VW issued the service bulletin in the early seventies to STOP using the paper gaskets and start using silicone.
RC _________________ [email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.
I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bsairhead Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2008 Posts: 3475 Location: viroqua wi.
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My method is to place the gasket on a piece of clean cardboard with Permatex 3H and brush around the gasket, both sides, if no gasket used, i brush around the base of the cylinder. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
RockCrusher Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2010 Posts: 4596 Location: Parkesburg, PA
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
djkeev wrote: |
RockCrusher wrote: |
VW issued the service bulletin in the early seventies to STOP using the paper gaskets and start using silicone.
RC |
Yep, heard this for years. You'd think with the miracle of digitizing information that a copy of said service bulletin would have surfaced by now. Until it does, to me it's all urban legend and hearsay.
People often hear something and without any documentation parrot it as rock hard fact.
Question, why doesn't my Type I service manual printed in 1976 mention this?
Dave |
That info comes directly from Gene Berg.....good enough for me. _________________ [email protected] Please use email for all general inquiries.
I will be happy to speak to anyone who has a serious inquiry (meaning real potential business for RC enterprises) or a parts order. Due to machining noise causing missed calls all calls will be returned promptly. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
djkeev Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007 Posts: 32433 Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
RockCrusher wrote: |
djkeev wrote: |
RockCrusher wrote: |
VW issued the service bulletin in the early seventies to STOP using the paper gaskets and start using silicone.
RC |
Yep, heard this for years. You'd think with the miracle of digitizing information that a copy of said service bulletin would have surfaced by now. Until it does, to me it's all urban legend and hearsay.
People often hear something and without any documentation parrot it as rock hard fact.
Question, why doesn't my Type I service manual printed in 1976 mention this?
Dave |
That info comes directly from Gene Berg.....good enough for me. |
Still waiting for the bulletin to appear, sorry.
Gene Berg's reputation as a great VW wizard is legendary. Even modern Legends can be, and at times are, sincerely wrong.
I guess my thinking is that silicone is known to be a hazard to the oil passages in ACVW without a modern oil filter installed. I don't need outside documentation for this, I've got proof from personal experience with a #1 main seized on an engine that was floating in excess silicone. Pieces were found in the oil passages when I trashed the case!
Why the heck take the risk of introducing silicone into a case where the possibility exists of it finding it's way through the oil pump and into the lubrication system, no matter how small the chance is? There are other products that do as well if not better than silicone. Why assume that risk?
In my mind it is pure folly!
Silicone is quite possibly the most misused, overused and trouble causing modern product. Be it in sealing auto parts to sealing house roof leaks and windows. It has very severe limitations and will adhere to only certain products and can only withstand certain temperatures and environmental conditions (depending upon it's type) but almost everyone regards it as some sort of miracle all purpose sealant! Add to this the "if a little is good then naturally more is better" mentality and you've got instant disaster.
Dave _________________ Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kevhum Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2008 Posts: 726 Location: State of Jefferson
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
walking around the pits at sac bugorama I've seen quite A bit of red silicone between cylinders and the cases,but like A friend said they aren't driving them every day.Just quarter mile here and there. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugninva Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2004 Posts: 8858 Location: sound it out.
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
djkeev wrote: |
Silicone is quite possibly the most misused, overused and trouble causing modern product. Be it in sealing auto parts to sealing house roof leaks and windows. It has very severe limitations and will adhere to only certain products and can only withstand certain temperatures and environmental conditions (depending upon it's type) but almost everyone regards it as some sort of miracle all purpose sealant! Add to this the "if a little is good then naturally more is better" mentality and you've got instant disaster.
|
Dave, your gripe is with misuse, not use... if the service bulletin went to dealer mechanics, it's a fairly safe assumption that the service techs would use it properly... I've never had a problem using RTV, but I use it properly and appropriately... _________________
[email protected] wrote: |
With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone? |
GEX has. Just sayin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
RTV works great!! I like the speed chanel& espn2 with the dragracin...as for cylinders never used silocone,Ill give it a try.Ive used halomar,no leaks,518, no leaks, mercrusier perfect seal. no leaks(I wish I had smore more of that stuff.) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mooosman Samba Member
Joined: November 05, 2007 Posts: 269 Location: Las Vegas, NV
|
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Three-Bond #1211. I've used it on barrels, case halves, head studs, etc. Use just enough to make a very thin film, let it set up a minute, and put it together. I've never had a leak using it, on any VW or motorcycle engine I've used it on.
Japanese motorcycle makers have used Three Bond for decades, with no gaskets and with no leaks. If it works in those applications, it'll work on an ACVW.
Nick _________________ (o\ ! /o) '69 Beetle---Subaru EJ22 powered---SOLD
(o\ ! /o) '64 Ruby Red patina bug---40 horses of FURY! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|