1300 Extra Mileage Motor

[DarthWeber]

[Alstrup]

[DarthWeber]

Here's the skinny on Bosch Blue Coils:

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/BlueCoil.html
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[bugguy076]

Thanks for the info on coils, Darth. I bought one of the bad ones. Live and learn.
I thought the price was too good to pass up. Now I understand why.

[[email protected]]

there are 5 different BOSCH "Blue Coils", this doesn't even count the counterfeit Bosch coils....
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[Alstrup]

Darth, A couple of years back i messed around with having them ground on 110 LC to see if I could make them pull a little higher in the rpm and in another engine (single port) for a more even idle.
The idle in the sgl port engine didnt really change. And it is only something a trained ear will notice.
The engines also lost some of their edge and a little bit of power. So I stopped playing with it and went back to regular 107 LC.
In the meantime I have figured out how to improove the idle to a stock like smoothness. So it is not an issue for me anymore.

T

[bugguy076]

I'm not used to working with small displacement engines. Is the differance between CB's cheater cam and the FK-65 I'm using really a large change?
Cheater cam-216 deg & .050 / .299 lift at cam, 107 sep.
FK-65 cam- 236 deg at .050 / .342 lift at cam, 108 sep.

The FK-65 idles almost like a stock cam, even down at 700rpm.

[DarthWeber]

[DarthWeber]

Alstrup, I talked to a tech guy at CB (not Pat Downs) a while back and he mentioned they tried the Cheater cam ground on 110 or 112 LC on a turbo motor. He said it was pretty much a pig and ran hot all the time.

I asked the CB guy if grinding the Cheater on 106 or 108 LC would help the engine get a bit better fuel mileage. He seemed to think grinding it on 108 might be worth a try. I guess I'm just confused about the whole lobe center thing. I've searched and read most of the threads about it here and what I'm trying to find out is if there's definitive proof that grinding a cam narrower or wider than 108 degrees will have a positive effect on fuel economy? I know it can move the torque and HP peaks around but I just wanted to see if there would be benefits for the fuel mileage.

Somebody help Darth! He's lost in space!!
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[dawie]

Closer lobe centers results in more valve overlap. In single carb and plenum type injection, this causes more "internal egr" at light loads and idle, as vacuum from other cylinders are coupled. Excessive exhaust gas sucked back during overlap causes the misfiring/rough running during idle associated with a "wild" cam. Going to dual carbs or individual throttle bodies reduces this problem. On the other hand, too wide lobe centers/too little overlap may just cause reduce cylinder filling/power.

Retarding the cam will cause both inlet and exhaust valves to close later. "Dynamic compression ratio" goes down, and static cr can be increased to compensate. This results in higher expansion ratio, or "semi Atkinson cycle". Reduced pumping losses, but also reduced torque at lower rpm's.

Higher expansion ratio helps to capture an extra few % more of the energy that would otherwise be lost through the exhaust... but only at full and medium loads. Opening exhaust valve too late may cause higher cht's.

Think the camshaft is one of the last places to try get that extra bit of efficiency... once other aspects (proper mixtures/timing/etc) have received proper attention. But that is just my own humble opinion...

[bugguy076]

I am running the FK-65 with 1.1 rockers. May not be intended for this, but it seems to work well.

[DarthWeber]

Ahh, I see, then your cam isn't that far off of the cheater cam specs. Only thing is the opening rate, how fast the ramp on the cam is. I believe the cheater cam has a fast opening rate. Being the FK-65 is meant for 1.4's it may have a bit slower ramp but hey, if it works for you and you are happy with the results then it's all hunky dory.
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[spencerfvee]

i just bought one of the good bosch coils . it seems every thing is going up . 40 days ago i bought the same bosch blue coil for $35.00 at my vw parts store. today i bought the same bosch blue coil and it was $45.00 every time i turn around vw parts go up . and to top it off gas went from $3.59 gal. to $3.90 gal. lol spencerfvee

[DarthWeber]

Spencer you kill me! Gasoline has been well over $4 here in SoCal for MONTHS!! I'd love to pay only $3.90 for gas, $3.59 in my dreams.

Hey, $10 more for a blue coil, just consider it your contribution to reviving the economy!!
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[66brm]

[modok]

THe cheater is SO MILD, that I don't think you'd really want to change the Lobe center, you could change the advance a little maybe, perhaps from 4 advance to straight up.

Rather, how about lets call the cheater the standard, and if we want to play then we can use LC, and splits cams, and what all. too ADD later IC point, or more overlap, or whatever else you would want to do WITH the cheater

with IR carbs it could stand a lot more overlap, to use more CR with a single throttle system you could leave the overlap the same but extend the IC point later, really depends what you are doing, but in any case you'd want to ADD to it, rather than re-arrange it's timing points, IMO

BTW, most of the "blue coils" in my bucket are faded, rusty, or just plain not blue at all, but they all tested good, color does not seem to effect the operation.

[DarthWeber]

$1.62 AUD is about $1.66 USD. So that would be about $6.27 a gallon.

But you live on the edge of the world there in Perth so they have to transport it all the way out to you by land train right?
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[66brm]

No, we produce our own fuel here, or is bulk tankered in when demand outstrips supply, the cost is pretty much the same across the other side of the country too,but in the middle bit you are looking at over $2.10 a litre due to shipping costs into the more isolated areas.
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Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval

[Boolean]

Paid 8.62 USD/gallon a few days ago. My pickup truck gets 12 MPG.
Housing and food combined is still more though...

[bugguy076]

I got the idea of building this 1300 from a topic that was posted on here about two months ago, plus the $4.00 a gallon fuel prices. I can see from postings around the world that prices here in the U.S. are not nearly as high as most everywhere else. I'm just getting an early start on a problem that is only going to get worse.
I made the mistake buying a coil that is a piece of junk. I can't return it because it's an electrical part. I'm not buying another one. I dug in my boxes of VW parts and found two of the short 12V. bus coils. Cleaned them up and tested them with a meter and on the car.. Put one in the parts bag in the car and the other on the good used parts shelf for future use.
What happened to pride. Companys don;t care if it works or not, just can it be sold.