Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
1300 Extra Mileage Motor
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
spencerfvee
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3071

spencerfvee is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hay darth i bet if gas was 3.59 in Cal. there would be the biggest line at gas staintions . cars all over the place . that gas staition would have its tanks drainned in a heart beat lol talking about that around here guys are stealing gas by parking there vans over the tanks at gas staitions and pumping the gas out of the gas staintions tanks into big tanks in there vans and driveing away spencerfvee
DarthWeber wrote:
Laughing Spencer you kill me! Gasoline has been well over $4 here in SoCal for MONTHS!! I'd love to pay only $3.90 for gas, $3.59 in my dreams. Rolling Eyes

Hey, $10 more for a blue coil, just consider it your contribution to reviving the economy!! Dancing Applause
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Boolean
Samba Member


Joined: January 19, 2012
Posts: 1712
Location: Stockholm
Boolean is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it was 3.50 it wouldn't be worth the queue unless you bought like 500 gallons.
Just get used to it.
You have the second cheapest gasoline in the world.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bugguy076
Samba Member


Joined: December 11, 2007
Posts: 1068
Location: Dover, PA.
bugguy076 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did another milage check with the good coil. Got 38 mpg. Did not improve as much as I thought it would. The engine runs much better and has more power.
I'm going to take the car on vacation next week. I think a 500 to 600 mile road trip will tell if the milage numbers are right.
The only problem I see is where I'm going. The Catskill Mountians is not the best place to be checking fuel milage. Along with my lady friend and her luggage. You know how much they have to take along! Like checking the mileage on your pickup with a full load of dirt.
This should be a real test.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
TomSimon
Samba Member


Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 749

TomSimon is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a few tips I know to work from first hand experience...

1) air up your tires to max inflation listed on the sidewall, plus some. The ride will be a little rougher but, I've netted 5% increase in average MPG with my Metro by doing this alone. If you are putting on new tires, tires with the lowest rolling resistance will typically have the highest wear rating and lowest traction rating.

2) make sure the brakes aren't dragging. Check your front and rear toe-in. The closer to zero toe, the lower the rolling resistance. You can verify by pushing the car around by hand. Warning; toe out condition can be a handful to drive in the wet and in cross winds.

3) Less weight, the better. More tools for a long trip in an old car, sometimes the better, so it's a tradeoff. Have your chick pack as if she's going backpacking (that's how I convince mine to pack light on a road trip, we make it a game). I tell her 'look, if it turns out YOU need that extra jacket you want to bring, I'll let you use mine instead'

4) adjust your driving style: shift early, accelerate gently, ease onto the freeway ramps, timing your entry between cars. Your goal is to accelerate smoothly and gradually, never having to decelerate or brake. Shift into neutral and coast for 1/8 mile down to 50mph before exiting an offramp. Slow down your cruising speed by 5mph, drive up short hills with your throttle foot fixed, allowing the car to naturally slow a little going up the small hill, keeping throttle angle the same. Your acceleration rate should mimic that of a tractor/trailer rig for highest mpg's. Plumbing in a cheap vacuum gauge will help you do that.

5) don't use any higher octane fuel than you absolutely need. Too much octane makes an engine run lazy and loose power. Check your points if you have them, and timing often. Use a lighter oil, like 10w30 wt. Fee the engine some Chevron Techron, Seafoam, or some sort of FI cleaner. It keeps the combustion chambers, valves and piston tops clean which help an engine resist pinging. Run as much timing as you can without pinging in 4th gear going up a steep 6-7% grade at 3/4 throttle. Most freeways have 3-4% max. If it pings at full throttle, don't do that.

Hope that helps
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bugguy076
Samba Member


Joined: December 11, 2007
Posts: 1068
Location: Dover, PA.
bugguy076 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do understand what you are saying. But my girl packs like she is moving, not going for a long weekend. LOL. We have had "the talk"and is improving. Rolling Eyes
I did go over the entire car for the trip.
The bag of tools and spare parts is a mandatory item, as is a spare tire. I would not leave home without them. I have pulled a rabbit out of the hat, or bag, more than once.
Driving an old VW around the northeast is like taking a buggy out in the desert. If you did not bring it with you, you will not find it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
bugguy076
Samba Member


Joined: December 11, 2007
Posts: 1068
Location: Dover, PA.
bugguy076 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made it back from Catskill mountians last night. Over 600 miles of all kinds of reasons to get lower mileage.
Two solid days of driving in the rain, huge mountians, and over 500 pounds of people and luggage.
I still got 36 MPG overall. I ran at the posted speed limits, and did not baby the car at all. A lot of the high mountians I ran in 3rd gear at the 55mph speed limit, passing trucks and a lot of the small rice burners people are buying to save on gas.
The engine ran well. Not one hickup. No overheating at all using regular fuel. When I started the trip, the engine only had 400 miles on it. I could tell, the more miles It got on it, the better it ran.
I wish I had built this engine years ago.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
dawie
Samba Member


Joined: July 27, 2008
Posts: 217
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
dawie is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations. Very Happy That is excellent results, especially seeing that you were not sparing the horses!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
AlteWagen
Troll


Joined: February 23, 2007
Posts: 8498
Location: PNW
AlteWagen is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on the mpg!!

Are you running the 77mm pistons and late dp heads?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TomSimon
Samba Member


Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 749

TomSimon is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's so cool, nice job, great mpg average!

I do a lot of road trippin'. In the last 6 months we've taken 2 trips out to the Mojave Desert, driven to Lake Havasu twice in my Metro, towed the racecar down to Phoenix in March with my Gal's minivan. Then did a Reno-Death Valley-Las Vegas road trip in April.

You've just inspired my next road trip. I need to ready my '62 bug for a fall trip up the Medocino coast or something. It's got a fresh big-bore 40hp rebuild and brakes that need breaking in Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bugguy076
Samba Member


Joined: December 11, 2007
Posts: 1068
Location: Dover, PA.
bugguy076 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Stock 77mm barrels and VW dual port heads. The chamber overlaps the cylinder a small amount. But I felt there is enough sealing surface to work. I did make spacers to center the barrels in the heads. Time will tell if I made the right choice. I think once the carbon builds up in the little recess, it won't make a differance.
I did a compression test before I installed the motor. With freshly honed cylinders and unseated rings it got between 125 and 130lbs compression. All I did was spin the engine over with a 1/2" pull bar and socket while it was sitting on the bench.
It runs well on regular gas with the compression at 8.1. Just high enough for a good burn with the FK-65 cam I'm using.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
bugguy076
Samba Member


Joined: December 11, 2007
Posts: 1068
Location: Dover, PA.
bugguy076 is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We all do a lot of work on our cars. What good are they if we don't use them? I hope I can get more of us on the open road to enjoy the hobby. I just made my road trips cheap again. Next is a trip to the shore. It's been too long since I did some surf fishing. I just have to figure out how to carry a 11ft surf rod on the car !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
DarthWeber
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7543
Location: Whittier,CA
DarthWeber is offline 

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With respects to your combustion chamber overlaping the cylinder a small amount, I think it may be better if you take a more proactive approach to the carbon buildup. Rather than let it build up over time, which could lead to a hot spot for preignition, I think it would be better to run some cleaner, Seafoam or the like, to keep the chamber as clean as possible. Tom Simon mentioned this in a post above. Just a thought, may prevent problems down the road.
_________________
Mitey62 wrote:
Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on.

RockCrusher wrote:
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bugguy076
Samba Member


Joined: December 11, 2007
Posts: 1068
Location: Dover, PA.
bugguy076 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth, I don't know if the Seafoam is a good idea or not. If I start to encounter preignition or overheating, I may try it.
The overlap on the barrel edge is about .050. I have torn good running engines down that have had much thicker deposits on the chambers and exhaust valves. I'm sure you have seen this as well. Time will tell if it matters or not.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
krusher
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2002
Posts: 7652
Location: europe
krusher is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugguy076 wrote:
I like the idea of stroking a small displacement engine. You can gain back low end torque. If I had the parts, I would have built it this way.
I think most get the idea of what I was tring to achieve. I built a reliable engine at a low cost. I can recoup what I spent in a short time.
I increased the mileage by at least 10mpg over the stock 1600 that was in the car.
While the low end torque suffered a little from the smaller cc's, the overall way the car drives is about the same. And it is snappy, too. At higher rpm's this 1300 out performs the 1600. Nice to have that extra kick in the pants when jumping on the expressway.
I don't think there is a perfect combination. Just many ways to get about the same results.
This was an experiment to see if I could improve my gas mileage. And I did that without spending much.


I would think the TQ is suffering because of to much duration for the small capacity, I would have gone for a smaller cam with more lift.
_________________
(06:31:07) RoachGhia: "i drink dick way too fast"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
bugguy076
Samba Member


Joined: December 11, 2007
Posts: 1068
Location: Dover, PA.
bugguy076 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not true, it has good torque for what it is, a 1300. The FK-65 cam has a lot of duration.(280deg.) But a lot of the duration is before and after.050 lift. That just bleads off some of the compression and is very gentle on the valve train. That is why I raised the compression to 8.1 running on regular fuel. The running duration is only [email protected] lift.
If I was buying a cam for the 1300, I would have used something else. The FK-65 was just laying around and I felt it would work in this engine with 1.1 rockers.
Like I said, this engine was built mostly from parts I had. I spent very little to build it. That doesn't mean that it was not well thought out. A lot of machine work went into this project so all the parts would work well together.
I would like to put the car on a dino to see what the horsepower and torque numbers are. Instead, I'll spend that money on gas to go somewhere.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
bugguy076
Samba Member


Joined: December 11, 2007
Posts: 1068
Location: Dover, PA.
bugguy076 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update on engine......With over 5000 miles on it now, everthing is working well. Mileage and power has not droped off. I think the overlap of the cylinders will not be an issue. Engine heat has not been a problem in this hot summer. Normal oil changes and valve adjustment show no problems. I tried tuning for higher mileage, have not found anything to improve it. I'm using 135 mains in the Kad's. Tried 130's and the mileage fell off and the heat incressed too much. I am going to try smaller venturis when I find a set, might improve velosity of mix.
Average mileage has stayed at 37mpg. Back roads are no problem, but when running on the expressway it must stay under 3300rpm to keep mileage up. That means at 65mph speed limit. Mileage drops off fast if running with traffic at 70mph.
Lady friend and I are heading for the shore again in a few weeks. Hoping to gain a little more mileage with flatter roads and lower elevation.
Happy motoring............
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
DarthWeber
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2007
Posts: 7543
Location: Whittier,CA
DarthWeber is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is excellent fuel mileage! With 5,000 miles on your motor, now is a good time to change to a quality synthetic motor oil like Redline.....
_________________
Mitey62 wrote:
Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on.

RockCrusher wrote:
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
krusher
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2002
Posts: 7652
Location: europe
krusher is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugguy076 wrote:
Update on engine......With over 5000 miles on it now, everthing is working well. Mileage and power has not droped off. I think the overlap of the cylinders will not be an issue. Engine heat has not been a problem in this hot summer. Normal oil changes and valve adjustment show no problems. I tried tuning for higher mileage, have not found anything to improve it. I'm using 135 mains in the Kad's. Tried 130's and the mileage fell off and the heat incressed too much. I am going to try smaller venturis when I find a set, might improve velosity of mix.
Average mileage has stayed at 37mpg. Back roads are no problem, but when running on the expressway it must stay under 3300rpm to keep mileage up. That means at 65mph speed limit. Mileage drops off fast if running with traffic at 70mph.
Lady friend and I are heading for the shore again in a few weeks. Hoping to gain a little more mileage with flatter roads and lower elevation.
Happy motoring............


Good mpg numbers.

When trying for better figure why were you changing the mains? cruise is done on idles.
when you do a jet change and go leaner you will also probably need to alter timing as leaner mic likes more advance, so your higher temps could have been from the new fuel air ratio not being liked by the old timing.
Any idea or your idle and main air fuel ratios?
_________________
(06:31:07) RoachGhia: "i drink dick way too fast"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
andy198712
Samba Member


Joined: December 05, 2010
Posts: 1209
Location: Cornwall - UK
andy198712 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My stock 1200sp went from mid to low 20's uk mpg, I used megasquirt to control the crank fired ignition and I now get 37mpg driving the same places and speeds, thats like 50% better!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Alstrup
Samba Member


Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7182
Location: Videbaek Denmark
Alstrup is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello.
Yes, very nice results.
I think the reason to why the edge is so apparent at about 3300 rpm wrt fuel consumption, is that that is where the engine begins to really suck from the main circuit in the carbs. To even that out you will have to bump the CR so the engine gets more efficient in that range. But then you will most likely not be able to run on 87 pump gas anymore. You could also reduce the venturi size to 26 mm. Then the overlap becomes much more soft. But you will be in for a serius rejet to get it right.
A stock vacum distributor will not work that well with the vacum system of the Kadrons. It can of course be made to. - Take a deep look at a late model type 3 distributor, and copy the spring tension from that one, or simply use one. That will get you a long way in the right direction.

T
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.