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Steps to take to protect your engine from overheating
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75bus4/me
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Steps to take to protect your engine from overheating Reply with quote

With summer just around the corner. I want to make sure I have done what I can to protect my engine from overheating.
Things done:
Oil change
Valves adjusted
Timing set
All engine tin in place
All foam seals in place
All holes plugged
Spark plugs properly gaped

Things I do not have:
Tin on bottom of motor under exhaust manifolds

1975 bay window 2.0, single Weber,
thanks
Gerry
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RatCamper
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So... Is there a question?
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75bus4/me
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RatCamper wrote:
So... Is there a question?


Being new I want to know if there is anything else that I should do and how important is the tin under the exhaust manifolds
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RatCamper
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

75bus4/me wrote:
RatCamper wrote:
So... Is there a question?


Being new I want to know if there is anything else that I should do and how important is the tin under the exhaust manifolds


Oh I see. Well, every bit f tin is important. These were utilitarian vehicles and VW were pretty cheap so nothing unnecessary was put on.

Also you may have clogged cylinder vanes under the tinware. Have you checked them? When I pulled the tin off mine once I was horrified to find all the vanes clogged with oily dirty gunk.
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

check your air to fuel ratio and shoot for around 13.1 - 13.3 at 65 mph. Set your timing to 28 BTDC at full in with no vacuum and then reattach the vacuum hose if you have one. Use the engine timing scale and not the one on some HF light.
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75bus4/me
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did do the times as you described but set my carburetor by ear. Before setting my carburetor it ran like crap and would fall flat on its face when accelerating.
Here is a picture of the bottom are the cylinder vanes the fines that surround the cylinders?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

75bus4/me wrote:
I did do the times as you described but set my carburetor by ear. Before setting my carburetor it ran like crap and would fall flat on its face when accelerating.
Here is a picture of the bottom are the cylinder vanes the fines that surround the cylinders?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Oh I thought you meant the tins next to the heat exchangers. Didn't realise you were missing the metal off them too!
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75bus4/me
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RatCamper wrote:
75bus4/me wrote:
I did do the times as you described but set my carburetor by ear. Before setting my carburetor it ran like crap and would fall flat on its face when accelerating.
Here is a picture of the bottom are the cylinder vanes the fines that surround the cylinders?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Oh I thought you meant the tins next to the heat exchangers. Didn't realise you were missing the metal off them too!


Yea all the tin is gone from the bottom. I don’t have a heater or any hoses or tubing.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't have the tins under the cylinder head, you shouldn't run a thermostat as the air passing under the bus may keep the thermostat from heating up fully. This may be more of a cold weather problem than a warm weather one though.

Do you have the boot that seals the oil pressure switch to the tin and the boot that supplies cooling air to the alternator?
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Manfreds78bay
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those tins you are missing are very important to cooling your engine. My guess is that you will have over heating issues.


Those bear heat exchange pipers are going to give off a lot of heat which is going to go right up into your cylinder heads.

Usually that heat is moved away from the engine by the fan. You might be okay as long as you are moving, but if you get stuck in traffic that engine is going to over heat.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that will chime in that will say they have run that type of setup for years, but my advice is to run the correct setup.
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manfreds78bay wrote:
Those tins you are missing are very important to cooling your engine. My guess is that you will have over heating issues.


Those bear heat exchange pipers are going to give off a lot of heat which is going to go right up into your cylinder heads.

Usually that heat is moved away from the engine by the fan. You might be okay as long as you are moving, but if you get stuck in traffic that engine is going to over heat.

I'm sure there are plenty of people that will chime in that will say they have run that type of setup for years, but my advice is to run the correct setup.


I agree!
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copellos
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how about a aux oil cooler with a fan. anyone know a good source
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synthetic oils can handle the heat generated in the heads and cylinders better than dino oil.
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Steps to take to protect your engine from overheating Reply with quote

75bus4/me wrote:
1975 bay window 2.0, single Weber

Get that Weber off there. It's chocking your engine and working harder to deliver fuel to the heads and creating more heat. You can block off all the holes you want but that thing is creating more heat than it can handle. Get a proper F.I. set up, correct exhaust, put the metal shrouds back on the heater boxes and get ALL the tins in place and screwed down. Your engine will create less heat and you'll get more HP and longevity from it
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Steps to take to protect your engine from overheating Reply with quote

thewalrus wrote:
75bus4/me wrote:
1975 bay window 2.0, single Weber

Get that Weber off there. It's chocking your engine and working harder to deliver fuel to the heads and creating more heat. You can block off all the holes you want but that thing is creating more heat than it can handle. Get a proper F.I. set up, correct exhaust, put the metal shrouds back on the heater boxes and get ALL the tins in place and screwed down. Your engine will create less heat and you'll get more HP and longevity from it


My engine has run quite well with a Weber for 250K miles at this point without experiencing the hot lean run conditions FI engines are notorious for. As for power, I haven't been bothered by 2000cc FI buses passing my old beater 1800 on the grades.

I also doubt that his massacred heat exchangers are going to be adding much of any heat to the engine, as the original system just dumped the same heat towards the front of the engine where it was just as likely to cause problems, but didn't. If he is pumping air from the heat exchanger/fan connections out into space it is probably wasting cooling air, but maybe not all that much compared to stock, and I am not sure the lack of the bottom tins will decrease cooling at all so long as the thermostat allows the flaps open.

I don't like the looks of his engine with all the bastardizations, but it will not necessarily overheat because of them.
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done the calculations and a Weber only flows slightly less maximum CFM than stock dual Solex carbs. The Weber is also good for a max of about a 2.3L motor I think? So there's no airflow issues. If anything the long runners help with constant throttle application if fuel dropout isn't an issue. Before someone says it my Weber was totally responsive, didn't bog and there wasn't really any throttle delay. Well, Holley Economaster. Same thing really.
I rejetted it and am using it on the Subaru motor now and it's every bit as happy as it was on the Type 4. There is nothing wrong with a well set up progressive.
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

75bus4/me wrote:


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I'm in the same boat as you, but with the different style exhaust system, anyone got any pic's of how it should be?
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was listening to a discussion about anyone using "J" tubes should put a home made shield between the "J" tubes and the valve covers . Howard is a retired engineer and has several articles published in hot vw,s Cool
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same setup except with pipes. Blocked off the air that went to the exchangers from the fan. I live in Chandler, Az. No over heating issues. Cut the flanges off those exchangers and weld in stright pipes. That will cut down alot of weight. No need for shields. The air blowing down from betweent the cylinders will blow the exhaust heat away from the heads. Been running this way for about ten years now. That looks like a S&S header you have. Where did you get that? I will be needing one soon. Thats a bunch of bull when people say you need heatexchangers, or I would of had a failure a long tome ago. I drive pedal to the metal.
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75bus4/me
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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have the boot that seals the oil pressure switch to the tin and the boot that supplies cooling air to the alternator?[/quote]

I don’t know where to look or what they look like. I need to look for a diagram in my Bentley.
Can someone explain how the tin on the bottom works to cool? Does it take air from the motor outlets and blow across? or air from under the bus and blow it across?

Gerry
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