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Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

tasb wrote:
Bosch # ZVS 75 6 Z the VW# 111 905 207 B.


I'll have to add that ZV number to my cross reference chart!
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

It looks like some NOS caps that Wolfsburg West was selling a few years ago. Or maybe it was Vintage Parts.

I have one, it's the same.
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tasb
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

The dark brown German Bosch caps with the logo's on the outside of the cap are a newer production- as in late 1950's through the mid 1960's.

Wolfsburg West now has a dark brown cap they have had reproduced. It's of good quality. The only logo is the WW on the inside of the cap.
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tasb
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:55 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's a beut, still in its original VW box which is a part of the mystery. The scant documentation on this distributor cap indicates that it is intended for the very last of the famed VE(R) 4 BRS 383 applications. This distributor continued into use as late 1955 but only on Porsche. The use of the 383 ended with VW in 1953.

Now the typical 383 cap was a "flat cap" with the wires exiting the hooded side of the cap. The flat caps used a resistor-less or "non-screened" rotor. If a screened rotor was desired you needed to purchase rotor VW# 111 905 225 A and this cap VW # 111 905 207 A is it's match. Note the clearance notch for the bolt that holds the coil and condenser leads.

It's interesting to note that this cap was used briefly again on the 1964 Type III distributor ZV/JCU 4 R 3- the last Bosch cast iron distributors used by VW. That cap, had the Bosch designation 03 002 VW # 341 905 207 or the old Bosch numbering system that was still in use in 1964 = ZVS74Z8

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The only way to tell this early cap from the later ones is the fact that the identifying marks on the earlier cap are on the inside of the cap while the later Bosch logo and part number are on the outside of the type III cap.

Thanks to Andy (Glutamodo) for some of the documentation on this distributor cap.

The Bosch part # = ZVS74Z4
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:15 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Yes, the Garbe Lahmeyer distributor cap and rotor were interchangeable with the above cap, but you could not intermingle the two.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

tasb wrote:
...but you could not intermingle the two.

Did you mean "should not" or is "could not" what you meant to type?
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tasb
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Either one I guess. If you are using a Garbe Lahmeyer cap you need to use a GL rotor. If your using a Bosch cap you need to use a Bosch rotor. You can't use a Bosch cap and a GL rotor and etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Don't make the same mistake that I did years ago. I won an ebay auction for a NOS distributor vacuum canister that was advertised as being for a 1959 Ghia. When it arrived I took one look at it and knew instantly that a mistake had been made. I have never seen a VW canister that looks like this.

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So I returned the canister and received my refund. Three years later I learned that the canister was the correct part for the Ghia only distributor used from August 1959 until January 1960 a total of only four months.

I did some digging and found the original Ebay transaction from three years previous. The seller recalled correctly that a well known shop in Connecticut had purchased the vacuum canister. I went on their website and sure enough there was the canister. I contacted the owner and we struck a tentative deal but I let two days pass and by then the canister had been sold to South America.

The search has gone on for five years until early this past month I came across two more NOS canisters. I very quickly jumped on them. They are quite distinctive.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Note the thin profile, threaded vacuum inlet like the 36 hp canisters and the prominent ribbing on the back side of the part.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The VW # still searching Bosch # 1 237 121 200

Here it is installed on the distributor:
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Note the riveted condenser? I've seen three of these and they are all riveted.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It has the tiniest of Bosch badges.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The points are specific to this distributor. Regular 40 hp points will not fit in this smaller housing.
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Nice photos, thanks for continuing to document all these rarities for those of us who only find them in old literature.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

glutamodo wrote:
for those of us who only find them in old literature.


and for those of us nerds who just enjoy the minutiae of distributors!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Here is an interesting distributor. It's NOS and is the Service Department replacement for the 113 905 205 T used in 1969 and 1970. The distributor was manufactured in March of 1977 and the condenser in January of the same year. The points, rotor and cap do not have date codes on them. It's also notable that the points are not Bosch! I believe them to be Bremmi and I have seen them come out of the little genuine VW parts boxes so I know that even from the factory Bosch was not used exclusively.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

tasb wrote:
Here...is the Service Department replacement for the 113 905 205 T used in 1969 and 1970.

My favorite distributor: nice tall cap, nice thick tall rotor, one piece points, well built, easy to change condenser if you have the tool, long lasting if taken care of.

Is the Service Department number the same?
Is it OK to use on a 1500 with 30 PICT-1?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Hello Barry, the ONLY number on the distributor is the Bosch# as above. This alone indicates that it was not installed on an engine at the factory.

Although factory matched to the 30 PICT 3 this will work with a 30 PICT as the vacuum signal the carburetor sends matches the vacuum canister delivery.

Yes, they are very good distributors. The cap and rotor are the same as the un oh 9's. Good in that parts will always be available, bad in that there is a lot of junk caps and rotors out there.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

tasb wrote:
...Although factory matched to the 30 PICT 3 this will work with a 30 PICT as the vacuum signal the carburetor sends matches the vacuum canister delivery.

On a 1500 with 30 PICT-1 what would the timing be set at?

Is lobe #3 retarded?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:29 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Static timed to TDC

#3 should retarded slightly
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

BarryL wrote:
tasb wrote:
...Although factory matched to the 30 PICT 3 this will work with a 30 PICT as the vacuum signal the carburetor sends matches the vacuum canister delivery.

On a 1500 with 30 PICT-1 what would the timing be set at?

Is lobe #3 retarded?


glutamodo wrote:
Static timed to TDC

#3 should retarded slightly


On the timing, the 1/66 and 8/66 manuals both say 7.5BTDC
8/66:
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Unless I am reading things wrong, the Workshop manuals here say 7.5BTDC too, for Split Bus with a 30 PICT-1:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/techbulletins/m1.php
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

tasb and Barry were talking about the Bosch replacement version of the 113905205T distributor for 1969/70. The 30PICT-1 will give a decent vacuum signal to it, but you really don't want that distributor set at 7.5BTDC.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Ok, I understand - thank you.

For anyone reading - The Tech page I posted above is probably a good all-around reference.
I did notice it said 0 TDC as you mentioned for post-67 stuff.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

EverettB wrote:
I did notice it said 0 TDC as you mentioned for post-67 stuff.

I was hoping tasb would officially weigh in as post '67 had smog stuff. If the spring rate and vacuum can is the same and it's a dealer replacement then it "should" be 7.5 BTDC but I want to be sure for El Maestro Himself. Thanks glutamundo and EverettB.
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