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Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors
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tasb
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

I had some of my gear including the apparatus packed up in preparation for evacuation due to the Blue Cut Fire and have not unpacked it yet. Embarassed
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tasb
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Here is an interesting SVDA distributor. It was never installed on USA bound VW buses. The part #'s: VW 043 905 205 ZC Bosch:0 231 168 001 with the following beneath it; SIC DGE 5819. The 5819 have strike throughs.


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Earlier in this thread there are several SVA distributors that are oddballs and have the SIC designation. This would be the first that I have come across that is a SVDA.

It is of high quality even though stamped as "Mecho en Mexico". The only data that I have been able to find on this distributor shows that it was for non USA 1970's Bus. It appears identical to the "034" and uses the same vacuum canister. Internally the distributor is different from the (170)034. It (168) 001 uses an older advance weights design and lacks the plastic pieces found in the 034.

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Since it appears to be identical to the 034 one can assume that it was designed to be matched to the 34 PICT 3 carburetor. The distributor is date stamped 921 which translates to January 1979.
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tasb
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:08 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

It's rare because it's NOS and was produced in limited numbers. It's unique and an oddball because it's a distributor that was not produced by Bosch. It's stock because it was installed on type I engines from 1960 until 1965 for the B version. From 1966 through 1967 the "J" distributor was installed. The last GL distributors were the "L" versions installed on the 1500 cc engines from 1965 until 1968. There were some other versions like the "E" that I cannot find any documentation on. The earliest GL distributors were mechanical advance while the later ones were vacuum advance.

This one has been sitting unused on a shelf for 57 years. it was made by Garbe Lahmeyer and I have featured several in this thread going back a few pages. It is commonly confused as the "VW" distributor. This is because the VW logo appears on nearly every part of this distributor.

Starting at the bottom the drive dog has the VW logo and the part number 211 905 247. The condenser has a VW logo and the number 211 905 295. The vacuum canister is labeled 211 905 271 B with a VW logo. There was also an A version. The cap has both the VW logo and the GL logo and the part number on the inside of the cap is 211 905 207. The rotor has the VW logo and 211 905 225. The points have room for the VW logo but not enough room for a part number. The points plate has a VW logo and part number that is hidden underneath the points. Lastly there is a foil paper full part number of 113 905 205 B. I am theorizing that because the very first GL distributors for VW were installed on the first post barndoor buses that they received the 211 prefix throughout production. These distributors were originally found on all VW models in the mid 1960's during their limited usage despite the bus prefix.

The B versions had an adjustable dampner for the vacuum advance. This one still sports the white putty seal on the adjustment screw indicating that it was set at the factory. The A versions were not adjustable.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:39 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Was the installation of the Garbe Lahmeyer random on earlier motors?
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tasb
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

I have restored four mechanical advance GL's. They all have 211 905 205 on the VW logo'd badge. That is all that has materialized. They were all manufactured in 1955, in different months. I have documentation that the vacuum advance GL was used starting in 1960 but none of the vacuum advance distributors have date stamps on them. The vacuum advance GL was used in larger numbers, along with GL starter, regulator, coil and generator: during a rare Bosch labor dispute sometime in the 1960's, I forget the exact year.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Picked this one up recently. 0 231 139 005 with a 9R (Sept 1960) date code. There was reference to this part number on page 5 of this thread, as being the service replacement for an R5 distributor. However, the production date (I think) falls into R2 era, maybe R1(?), as all the other R2's I have are 1961 "S" date stamped.
Just noticed the vacuum can has 11T date stamp, but that is an easy part to swap.
Digging a bit further, I found a rebuild date code of 708, August 1967.
My speculation is that it is a factory rebuilt, replacement service installation distributor, originally an R1 or R2 that has been factory upgraded to R5 specs and rebadged to show this change.
Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

It's definitely got the 4R5 style breaker plate in it as well. I think your guess might be the most likely scenario. By 1967 Bosch had pretty much abandoned the old part number system.
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tasb
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

I agree with your assessment Jon. The only thing that I can add is that it wouldn't be an R1 as those had a significantly different design than the R 2.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

It's also interesting to note that Garbe Lahmeyer Gmbh apparently did the rebuilding of the cast iron Bosch distributors for VW. You can see their logo to the left of the later rebuild date stamp.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

tasb wrote:
It's also interesting to note that Garbe Lahmeyer Gmbh apparently did the rebuilding of the cast iron Bosch distributors for VW.

They kissed and made up?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Dancing I think it's more like GL was willing to do what Bosch was not.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Here's an interesting contribution, it's NOS. It was a dealer service department replacement for the 36 hp Beetle running a stock Solex 28 PCI carburetor. The evidence for this is the badge part number. The production line distributors would have had the badge number: VJU(R) 4 BR 8.

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In january 1964 Bosch changed their part numbering system. Previous to this date there were one or two digits the designated a month. Next to the month designation there was a letter corresponding to a year. After January 1964 the date codes changed to all numbers beginning with a number for the year followed by one or two digits for the month. At the same time some parts like condensers and vacuum canisters received a quarter designation rather than month. The quarters started with 13 for the first quarter and ended with 16 for the last quarter. This badge would indicate a distributor manufactured after January 1964 since it has the new part numbering system.

This particular distributor does not have a date stamp on the housing. The condenser and the vacuum canister do have date stamps. The canister is date coded 416 which corresponds to last quarter of 1964. The condenser is date stamped 410 which translates to 1964 October (last quarter). This would be the first clue that this is an NOS distributor.

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Some other clues to being NOS are checking the obvious wear points. The points cam that the rubbing block rides on is clean showing no use. All of the hardware is free of scuffs and nicks. The drive dog has no markings showing wear on it. lastly when I received it there was no oil seal ring installed. The ring was considered a part of the engine gasket set.

I can speculate on why this distributor has survived unused for so long. The advance mechanism was frozen in the idle position. the grease had hardened and no amount of twisting by hand would free it up. The badge is not perfect lots of tiny dimples for some reason. A good disassembly, cleaning, lubrication and careful reassembly also showed no wear on any of the shims in the distributor. After installing on my Sun Machine I can also ad that the advance curve is in specification.

The paintwork on this distributor is worthy of note. It is quite thin and difficult to duplicate. I've seen other original distributors with this thin (cost saving?) work on them.

The points on the distributor deserve some mention. There has been some debate over whether only Bosch ignition parts were used on VW's. This Bosch distributor has a "VW" stamp along with the Schierkontakt label. The points could have been added later, the cap and rotor had already been liberated for another candidate.

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Finally note the hairpin clip to keep the points from riding up the brass post. These are nearly always missing. They were also installed on the 111 series distributors which are the aluminum bodied SVA distributors that were stock on the 40 hp 28 PICT carburetors. The early 113 series distributors also used the bass post and hairpin originally. These would have included the 113 905 205 K,and the 113 905 205 M as well as the bus only 131 905 205 distributors for 1966 and 1967.
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Last edited by tasb on Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

always check this topic when it surfaces because distributors are a special interest of mine.
thanks for such a great topic, Tim Smile
hope to see you at BBB this year!

one thing that i have been wondering is in relation to the Garbe dists:
i wonder if they are the same company, now known as LG that makes various kinds of electronics?
the logo seems awfully similar...
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

The Garbe Lahmeyer logo has the L and G in equal prominance. are you sure that's not what you are referring to/seeing. I'm pretty sure Garbe Lahmeyer is still in business. They've been around since the 1920's.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

this was on a 36 horse when purchased... anyone know about it?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

tasb wrote:
The Garbe Lahmeyer logo has the L and G in equal prominance. are you sure that's not what you are referring to/seeing. I'm pretty sure Garbe Lahmeyer is still in business. They've been around since the 1920's.


Still in business, but no production under the GL logo since 1993. They do advertise repair dept..
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

ZENVWDRIVER wrote:
this was on a 36 horse when purchased... anyone know about it?

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Great contribution:

Bosch did something that they never should have in the late 1960's. They stopped producing the cast iron 010 and 019. They are currently winding down production of the tune up parts for them, as well.

This distributor is the replacement for the 010. It's Brazilian made and the quality is not equal to German Bosch on some of the internal components. The blue screen printing on the badge comes off with soap and water...

They are not rare, might be considered unique and would fit most peoples definition of oddball. I think buried in the pages herein, there is some information on the earliest Brazilian distributors both mechanical and vacuum advance. The quality was better on the earliest versions.

These can be attributed to the success of the 009. They were cheap and for the same reasons people made the 009 popular this one was too. I'm not sure how long these were produced but the 009 filled the void they left, starting in the mid 1970's.

You could use them to rob parts from, for an 010, but I would definitely stay away from the points mounting plate- thin and soft, easily bent: and the points cam which is too brittle and breaks easily. Those are two key components of any distributor.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Eric&Barb wrote:
tasb wrote:
The Garbe Lahmeyer logo has the L and G in equal prominance. are you sure that's not what you are referring to/seeing. I'm pretty sure Garbe Lahmeyer is still in business. They've been around since the 1920's.


Still in business, but no production under the GL logo since 1993. They do advertise repair dept..


Yes, and probably with little or no allegence to their former selves as with VW. I've contacted them several times in both English and German with no response.
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tasb
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

Finally have a small run of the Garbe Lahmeyer distributor badges available:

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There are three versions used during the first half of the 1960's on the vacuum advance units.

113 905 205 B Auust 1960- July 1965

113 905 205 J August 1965- July 1966

113 905 205 L August 1966- July 1968

These were used on Beetles, Ghia's, Buses, and all type III's in limited numbers.
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tasb
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Rare Unique and Oddball stock ignition distributors Reply with quote

I've been rebuilding distributors for fourteen years now. This is the first time that I have come across this model:

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It's an SVDA manufactured in January 1981 (141)so it was probably a replacement part as it was installed on Beetles. It appears and functions almost identical to the 043 905 205 or '034' which were installed on the USA bound cars.


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The tune up parts are identical to those found with the 034 distributor. The vacuum canister is the same as the 034 but some documentation shows that it may have had a canister with 535 on the pull arm while the 034's canister has 579 on the arm. The two canisters have identical operating specifications. The part numbers: VW 043 905 205 K Bosch= 0 231 170 186. Here's a good example of why you cant use "205 K" distributor. There are several different 205 K out there. The better designation is the first three numbers then the last letter as in 043 K vs. 113 K ( 113 905 205 K). Of particular interest is the fact that even though this distributor was manufactured in January, 1981 it was made in Germany.
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