valves on new engine way too tight

[highroller]

Bought a new engine online from well known builder. Recievd engine last month, installed it yesterday. It was supposed to have been hot run at factory for 15 minutes, so I assume they adjusted valves prior to hot run. Anyhow I thought I'd check them prior to starting, and discovered that I couldn't get a .006 feeler guage in any of them at dtc compression stroke for each piston. Is this normal? Called builder and counterperson asked first if I'd ordered hydraulic lifters (I didn't) and then told me it was because the motor had been been sitting around for a month. I'm not a Gene Berg mechanic, but even I know valves don't tighten up from sitting around. So I thought I'd come here first for input before I start engine/ adjust valves/ or start grilling the builder. Thanks

[69 Jim]

Steel pushrods? Is it a performance longblock?

[Relyt]

How tight are they? Some people still adjust their valves to .004. Or apparently if you run steel pushrods they are gapped much lower.
_________________
69 Beetle - Daily driver
1600 SP (unknown history)
30 PICT 1 w/power circuit (Volkzbitz)
205T (Bill)

[highroller]

I knew I didn't provide enough info. It's a 16oo dp all new parts, case, cam etc etc. It's completely stock .

[Relyt]

I hate to be this way but... That didn't answer our questions.

If your gaps are at .004; just assume the builder still uses the old spec and adjust them to .006 if you want. If they are tighter then that; contact the builder to see if you have steel push rods and what the gap should be.
_________________
69 Beetle - Daily driver
1600 SP (unknown history)
30 PICT 1 w/power circuit (Volkzbitz)
205T (Bill)

[highroller]

Goin to garage where my bug is to determine what if any guage the gap is. Garage is 15 miles away. Will get back w/ info soon.

[Cusser]

[El Camino Man]

From readin around on here, they should be .006 unless theyre steel, then they should be .000
_________________
1972 Super Beetle
1600cc 4 Speed

1980 El Camino
305ci 200-4R

2011 Ranger
4.0L Auto 4x4

[HRVW]

Builder asked if he ordered hydraulics....they bleed if sat for a while and do not tighten up the valve adjustment.

I have hydraulics in my engine that will tick for 1-2 secs after the car sat for a week...they pump up fast.

As a former engine builder have my doubts on their builds....no sarcasim intended.

[highroller]

I'm baaaack. So valves are set at .003 all the way around. Emailed builder to enquire why. Probably wont hear back till tomorrow. The heads are new and machined at the builders company in Wisconsin. So maybe it's their design, or the pushrods. Seem's dangerous. Can't valves burn if u run them too tight? Thanks for the help. I repost after I hear from builder.

[Relyt]

Yeah tight valves can burn, as they're open when the fuel combusts.

My guess would be that they were gaped at .004 and tightened a bit on the first run.

Definitely let us know what's up when you hear back.
_________________
69 Beetle - Daily driver
1600 SP (unknown history)
30 PICT 1 w/power circuit (Volkzbitz)
205T (Bill)

[Ace]

Adjust them and run it. Adjust them again in 150 miles. A .001 change is not anything to blink an eye at. After the next adjustment it will be stable.

[Cadaver]

assume

sure , if he put that RTV crap under the jugs
or did set them wrong. (not using true TDC firing point)

never use RTV in anything, that is dimensionally critical ! just dont.
under nut heads
under jugs
in the path or torque,

ask an air craft mech.

mines holding ,sitting for 30days, with Aircraft 3H sealant.
yes , i too am paranoid it will change, new.

yes, if the clearance gets to 0 or less for any reason hot.
it will make the valves glow red and burn.
it must have clearance at all times,regardless of alum. or steel rods
but if steel you need to find that out, and im amazed you bought a motor
without a full build list..... and a final check of for the run in, if done.
_________________
for sale now.
in Samba classifieds....1968 T1.

[highroller]

Soooo, just for the sake of argument, would it do harm if I set the at .006 and drove it? I mean it's just gonna clatter a lot and not have the best performance, not damage it. Yes, some parts of the transaction don't sit well w/ me. These people only build an engine after it's ordered, and paid for. It seemed reasonable at first, but........ It's a done deal now. The engine may turn out to be a good one,I hope! I emailed the builder my specs and he replied that he would build it as I wanted, but it took 11 weeks to get done, and I don't have a formal bill other than the emails and my cc bill. We will see.

[Steve C]

Set it at .006" and drive it for a couple hundred miles and check it again .
Then every 3 Kmiles or so .
_________________
Cheers, Steve
69 Bug "Emy"
77 BradleyGT2 "Brad"
76 Riviera Camper "Sunshine Express "

[Cadaver]

you spec'd it ,so run it set it to your spec.

how can we tell you, since its not stock and we didn't read your email specs.
but set it to .006 and run it. X2
until such time you find out what is in the motor.
cam, push rods, rocker ratio, and type valves.
my 1cent from the peanut gallery.
_________________
for sale now.
in Samba classifieds....1968 T1.

[ashman40]

OP, did you see if your push rods are aluminum or steel. I was going to suggest taking a magnet to check but I'm not certain that magnets stick to chome-moly (I don't think it does?). But you can often tell by the color... aluminum push rods are "whiter".

Here are the stock aluminum ones (tips are steel)...

These are chromemoly (same color end to end)...

_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[Max Welton]

Chome-moly is still steel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/41xx_steel

Max
_________________
1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836

[Cadaver]

that is correct ,CM is just one steel alloy component.
steel is not an element , iron is.
and 1 atom of CM to a rod, makes it CM rod, but is it?
there is no laws governing this, like SYN blend oil, means ZERO.
not in usa, Europe is , diff. story.

the coefficient of linear expansion rates on steel are different
that the stock alum push rods (can be)
the stock rods attempt to mimic the block head and jug , rates.
thus holding in check the lash. SEARCH.

read your emails
see what brand your rods are
then contact your rod maker, ask them for lash guide lines.
it's your design, get more evolved in the engineering. see what yours needs.
its not a stock motor. nor is it a "off the shelf turn key"
go to the performance side of this forum.
see how many race motors builders drivers , post the full non stock
engine spec for their motor, before asking any questions
ever wonder why?, IT'S NOT STOCK.

it's about the parts....

custom block/cases (so many now)
huge jugs
huge diameter studs
vastly different heads.
all combine to make this a hard choice.
what some races do, they check lash hot. if they are unhappy with the results.they adjust the cold settings.. reality is a beach.
(an empirical discovery) or run .006 and be happy. Hope. springs eternal
_________________
for sale now.
in Samba classifieds....1968 T1.

[69 Jim]