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dan macmillan
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003
Posts: 3069
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | My concerns are:
- Will they mess up my front end? I have never performed any adjustments myself so I'm not really sure what they will do. What should I look for? |
there should be no concern if they are professionals. First step after the initial road test is to check tire pressures and set them to spec of the car, not max pressure spec on tire.If they do not do an initial roadtest and pressures, leave.
Next they should check your front end for play/damages as well as the rest of the suspension and if any are found, stop the alignment until properly repaired.
| Quote: | | - Do they even know how to lift the car? When jacking the car myself, I use a 2x4 across the Y pillar in the rear and between the control arms in the front. But their lifts have two arms per side - where should they put them? |
As mentioned earlier, an alignment is done on a 4 post rack {drive on ramps} The runway jacks lift the car off the rack for setup and some adjustments. Lift points will be the rear torsion housing. To check the ball joints they will have to lift on the chassis. Bring your board with you.
| Quote: | | - Their air ratchet will over torque the lugs, preventing me from changing a tire in the future. |
Dont know about your location but here in Ontario Canada, garages are required to properly torque all wheels.
| Quote: | | - How badly can they mess up my car? |
A newbie can really screw up the settings without realizing it.
INSIST ON A BEFORE AND AFTER PRINTOUT.
Having performed thousands of alignments I could set your car so that it tracks and handles perfectly and at the same time smoke your tires in a week. I won't as it would just cost me money and customers. This printout is the only proof of what was done so you will know if anything changed should a problem arise.
Specs are here in case thier equip does not go that far back.
If no problems are found and they do the alignment, post the before and after here.
_________________
Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Technician
CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
Alignment specialist
66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
Current projects:
Built for others:69 Manx Clone
Last edited by dan macmillan on Wed May 23, 2012 8:25 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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gt1953
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Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 7333
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I would start with the super beetle shimmy. The front end may have never been service all of these years.
Tires alone may not solve your issue.
I have them not find reverse also. IDIOTS!
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Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Find one keep it Stock. You will be glad you did.
PS Wife wants a Type 3 Fastback |
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dan macmillan
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003
Posts: 3069
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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As I stated...
They should check your front end for play/damages first and if any are found stop the alignment until properly repaired.
You cannot adjust out play, worn parts etc. The average person does not know how to properly check a front end.
_________________
Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Technician
CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
Alignment specialist
66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
Current projects:
Built for others:69 Manx Clone |
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rd3i
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2012
Posts: 10
Location: Wilton, CT
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all of the suggestions and helping me realize that my concerns were way overblown! I took it to the shop this morning and had the fronts replaced and balanced. The crew was oohing and ahhing at the car and peppered me with questions! In fact, they had me pull it into the bay for the tire change. Haha. They didn't mind that I hung around to watch what they were doing and everything went well - up until the alignment.
I have read a little about the Super Beetle shimmy and now it seems I'll need to take everyone's advice and hunker down with my books, forum postings, etc to figure this out. Here are my before and after alignment specs:
(L/R before) --> (L/R after)
Camber: 0.3 / -1.3 --> 0.3 / -0.7
Caster: 2.4 / -0.4 --> 2.4 / -0.4
Toe: -0.4 / -0.19 --> 0.25 / 0.25
The big disappointment was learning that the caster was so out of whack and that the camber nut was already at it's maximum position. (The tech pulled me under the car to show me.)
It's clear that I'll need to replace some/most/all of the frontend. While not everything was adjusted, I think it was worth it simply from how much more it feels like I've learned. Thanks again for all of the help and suggestions.
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1971 Super Beetle |
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JerryMCarter1
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Joined: January 07, 2007
Posts: 6244
Location: N.W. Phoenix
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:17 am Post subject: |
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hard-dub-life
Flat dead on -- hope he is reading
You cannot align a worn front end for sure
Jerry
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Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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dan macmillan
Samba Member
Joined: October 19, 2003
Posts: 3069
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| rd3i wrote: |
(L/R before) --> (L/R after)
Camber: 0.3 / -1.3 --> 0.3 / -0.7
Caster: 2.4 / -0.4 --> 2.4 / -0.4
Toe: -0.4 / -0.19 --> 0.25 / 0.25
The big disappointment was learning that the caster was so out of whack and that the camber nut was already at it's maximum position. (The tech pulled me under the car to show me.)
It's clear that I'll need to replace some/most/all of the frontend. While not everything was adjusted, I think it was worth it simply from how much more it feels like I've learned. Thanks again for all of the help and suggestions. |
So if some/most/all of the frontend needs replacing, why did they attempt to line it up? Did they check your tire press first and road test it.
Did they check your front end and ride height. Overall low camber is a sign of worn out coils.
With camber and caster that far off look for something bent or badly worn. what are the values for SAI and IA?
With a cross camber of 1 {max preferred is .25 higher on left on high crowned roads} pulling left and cross caster 2.8 {max preferred is .7 higher on right on high crowned roads} pulling even harder to the right. I suspect your car has a tendency to pull right. Camber that far off will wear tires as will caster [when turning] as your toe out on turns will be out of spec. At least your front toe {the greatest tire wearing angle} is correct.
Now what are the readings for the rear?
_________________
Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Technician
CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
Alignment specialist
66 Modified Manx,68 Kyote,74 Thing,74 Beetle, 76 Transporter,75 self made Double Cab,65 Meyers Manx,78Westy,68 Ghia, 79 Bradley GT2
Current projects:
Built for others:69 Manx Clone |
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