New tank & reseal - STILL LEAKS!

[SCM]

WTF? The whole install went smoothly. Then I filled up at the gas station and gas was streaming down from the tank worse than ever. Luckily(?) the gas ate away my undercoating job so it's easy to see that the leak is from the fuel gauge sender - just like before.

This seems like the one place where gas shouldn't be able to leak from and was pretty straight forward to install. Any ideas what could have went wrong?

I used the VC reseal kit EXCEPT I didn't use their green o-ring for the sender. My new sender came with its own black o-ring so I used that.

At least the rust problem is gone.
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'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine

[presslab]

I had this problem too.

I noticed that the aftermarket tanks have a sharp edge where the fuel sender slots in. This sharp edge cuts away the plastic, causing the sender to be loose, and not seal. I carefully bent the tabs on the tank and deburred the edges, and then pressed down on the sender as I rotated it. That fixed my leak.
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1986 Vanagon Westfalia EJ25
1988 Subaru GL-10 EJ20G --- 2000 Honda XR650L
2010 Titus El Guapo --- 2011 On-One 456 Ti

[tschroeder0]

are you sure you routed the cross over tube correctly, if not it will get pushed down in the middle and then flex the connections that press into the tank and then they can leak.

[SCM]

[indytriple]

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[presslab]

[teej]

[SCM]

OK, it's been two weeks and today was another rainy one (crap, it's actually snowing right now). So it seemed like an opportune time for round two of my gas tank replacement/reseal. AND, I'm excited to have my first post on the Samba that will hopefully benefit others.

First of all, a special thanks to my step-dad for granting me access to his "Garage-mahal". It's really REALLY nice having all this space.

If for no other reason, it's nice to undercoat a new tank because any gas that leaks will eat that stuff right off. It makes a huge mess on the gas station lot and your garage floor but it also makes it super obvious when you go looking to find the source of your latest gas leak.

As presslab mentions above, my new fuel gage sender got all buggered up by the sharp, burred edges of my new tank's sender-hole flanges.

Man, that looks horrible. I wish I had deburred and maybe reshaped those before screwing in my sender. If you do that before putting everything together on YOUR tank install you can probably stop reading now.

I, on the other hand, wish I had ordered another new sender to plug into that tank. Too late though, step-dad is coming home with his big RV tomorrow (freshly repainted half way across the country) and will want to park it in Garage-mahal. I'll just plug the original sender back in... Oh crap, it's screwed up too - that explains the leak I had before my resealing job.

So, I grabbed a fresh blade for my utility knife, some fine edged wood chisels, some really tiny files, and cleaned up the top edges of the new sender's screw ramps (probably the wrong term but you know what I mean).

I struggled for a while looking for just the right tool to use for bending those tabs on the gas tank inward enough to take up the slack introduced by my reshaping of the sending unit. It was really hard to get the correct angle with any of the pliers or channel locks I had. I think the perfect tool would have been a chainring straightening tool from a bike shop (a 1/4 inch thick bar of metal with a thin slot cut into it perpindicular to the length of the bar. I bet a piece of hardwood with a slot cut into it would work too but alas, I was across town and my buddy is borrowing my table saw anyway). I hoped to bend just the tabs but ended up bending them and the surrounding metal around them too. Then I bent the leading edge of the tabs upward a bit and deburred with a fine file and some sandpaper.

I stopped every so often during the reshaping process to dry fit the sender. Once it felt like it snugged up without the o-ring I stopped. During my first tank install attempt two weeks ago the sender did not get snug at all without the o-ring. Once I was satisfied with the fit I spread a bit of T2 gasket sealant on the tank where the o-ring would sit (see KayakWesty's great gas tank replacement instructions for a photo). I pushed downward as hard as I could while twisting the sender. It just felt "better" this time.

So, at this point I hope everything is solid. But it sure is a PITA to button everything up only to make a big scene at the gas station when you realize you still have a huge leaking problem (that was me two weeks ago).

Granted this is experimental* but my advice to anyone doing this job is to pressure test your tank before put it back in the van. Get yourself a #9 rubber stopper with a hole drilled in it, an air compressor, some soapy water, and a couple of helpers who have at least two fingers and a thumb on each hand. Put those helpers to work plugging the evap system holes/hoses while you insert the air compressor nozzle into the hole you drilled in that stopper.

Squirt a bunch of soapy water around the fuel sender. Jam the stopper into the filler neck hole/grommet and squirt some air in there. You'll feel the tank bloat up a bit - DON'T OVERDO IT!! Try it a few times to be sure.

* I saw NO bubble from the fuel gage sender so I'm extremely hopeful that this job is DONE. But I'm waiting until my next longer distance drive before filling up the tank. I'd rather spill any overflowing gas on the road to evaporate rather than fill up my garage with overpowering gas fumes (for a 3rd time).

I hope anyone planning to swap in a new gas tank sees this post because it could definately save you some time (I'll post again when I actually try to FILL the tank). In the mean time, here are a couple side notes.

I've read somewhere here that the x-over tube connections can be removed/reinserted by reaching through the wheelwells without dropping the tank. Not only is this true but I don't know how you could do it otherwise. You have such better leverage/angle from the wheelwells than you do from the back of the tank under the van. Put some duct tape on the back of your hands and jam one of them in through here (driver's side view, go above the frame)...

The duct tape is to keep your hands from getting ripped apart by the little plastic clips that hold your evap system hoses to the body.

I used VC's reseal kit with the aluminum barbed fittings. They went in and out easily and I wasn't worried about them breaking while the OG plastic fitting on the filler neck breather tube was so difficult to remove from the new grommet at the tank that I was afraid it would break. With a helper to guide that tube, you can carefully manuever the tank out without removing the plastic breather hose - that's what I did this time.

On round 2, except for some time BSing with my wife and my mom, it took 2.5 hours to drop and reinstall the tank. Round 1, with all the breather hose cutting etc, took 4.5 hours.

Good luck.
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'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine

[grambo]

I just did my tank replacement and reseal in early May and haven't noticed any leaks yet. I replaced my sending unit and used the black O ring that came with the tank rather than the green one from Van Cafe. It took a fair amount of pressure to get the sending unit to seat properly... I'll keep an eye out for leaks and know what the likely culprit is if it starts leaking. Thanks for the warning and instructive write up!

[SCM]

[Vangeaux77]

I am having a similar problem. About a year ago I did the whole gas tank rebuilt, hoses, grommets, sending unit, etc. The sending unit went south and was able to get another under warrenty. Installed it, filled the tank up and low and behold as I was getting a receipt from the station, I look back at the van and spill city was happening. Scary to see your just completed restoration with a puddle of gas underneath it. Pushed the van away from the station into a clear area and cleaned up the spill. I was able to drain some of the gas out of the tank to get it away from the sending unit I had installed and the leaking stopped.

After researching the subject I ran into an article from GoWesty:

The problem that you are experiencing has to do with the vapor control system on Vanagon fuel tanks. The fuel tank on all 2WD Vanagons has kind of an inverted saddle shape to it. The tank is high on both sides, and has a depression down the middle. Interestingly, the depression down the middle was put there to allow the hot air duct to pass from rear to front on air cooled Vanagons. Even though there is no purpose for it now, and even though 90% of all Vanagons ever produced were water-cooled, the fuel tank design never changed. Go figure….

The filler neck is fitted on the passenger side, at the top of one of the tall sides of the fuel tank. In order for fuel to fill up evenly on both sides of the fuel tank depressed area, VW came up with a somewhat elaborate way of venting the fuel vapor. The system is comprised of a transfer tube assembly, three grommets, and about a meter or so of 5mm fuel hose. There is also a grommet around where the filler neck enters the fuel tank. The system is good until the grommets dry up, or one end of one of the fuel hoses cracks and/or comes off. Then, the next time you fill up, N-I-A-G-R-A!

So, here is what I am thinking. Build a gas tank without the valley, completely eliminate the vapor control system, gas/vapor lines, tanks on either side of the fender wells, etc and get rid of any and all potential problems. I've got too much money in this baby to have it go up in flames. Any thoughts on this concept from a will it work standpoint?

Thanks, SCollier

[snowsyncro]

[Envious]

FWIW, I had the exact same problem when I replaced my tank with a new one. It chewed the plastic on the sender unit. It was so depressing to fill it up for the first time after all of that work only to have it leak half a gallon of fuel onto my driveway. Long story short, dropped the tank again, replaced the sender, life's good.
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71 Type 1302 Custom
64 Type 151
63 Type 117 L469 Anthracite
64 Type 361 L575 Nutria
64 Porsche 356c
56 Type 113 L227 Strato Silver
52 BSA C11G
59 Heilite Single Wheel Camping Trailer
56 Allstate Single Wheel
84 Vanagon Westfalia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388225

[crazyvwvanman]

Don't believe everything you read, even on the GoWesty site. The depression on the top of the tank served a purpose in watercooled as well aircooled. VW used it throughout production for the optional auxiliary heaters, BA6 and DA6. Not common in California but more so in colder climes. Plus the tank would need the top vents even if it was flat across the top. Syncro tanks ARE flat across the top but have top vents toward each side. The 2wd tank vent system is a nuisance and requires maintenance after 15 or 20 years, like most parts of the vehicle.

Mark

[Vangeaux77]

Thanks for the information. I'll consider your points in considering building a tank.

Steve

[nova73]

Dropped my tank for the third time. Replaced everything with tank and vapor return tanks. Reinstalled and on first full fill it leaked again. Very fustrating. I did notice that when I installed the new sending unit it felt like it did not seat properly. I believe you have solved my problem. Iam planning on installing a new tank in the spring and will bet my tank is leaking also at the sending unit. It is diffently coming from the top of the tank. Thanks for the valuable information.This is certainly a frustrating problem to deal with.

John

[Fishguy]

I replaced the whole tank system last year. Prefitting the sender I noticed it was going to be a tight fit. I applied white lithium grease to the surface of the tank where the sender seats, the o-ring groove on the new sender & the o-ring. Firmly pressed down on the sender & twist. Went on slicker than sh*t through a goose. Not a drop.
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1981 Westfalia

[nova73]

Yes, I did put on an RV black sealant, but it still did not seal properly. I believe those tangs on the tank were bent upward and prevented the sending unit from rotating properly to get a tight fit. An error on my part, which will require dropping the tank again. Doesn't matter anyway, cause Iam going to install a new tank. Everytime I put ethanol gas in it must dislodge rust or dirt particles because I get that running out of fuel situation. Blow air into tank and it gets dislodged and then runs fine. Do you have any suggestions pertaining to the ethanol problem?

John

[SCM]