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Jacks Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2006 Posts: 2344 Location: San Clemente, Ca.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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I guess with how little 356's are actually driven,... |
Where did you hear that? I guess that you don't live in my neighborhood. _________________ Jack Staggs
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dawerks Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2010 Posts: 2349
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Jacks How many miles did you put on your 356 last year?
as he lays out a real easy flutter ball _________________ "There is only one sin; disconnection from self." |
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Jacks Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2006 Posts: 2344 Location: San Clemente, Ca.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Well... I drive a 356 about 6 days a week, give or take, 52 weeks a year. This includes daily drives, road trips to Lake Tahoe, Colorado, Taos, Phoenix/Sedona, Utah, San Fransisco, Santa Barbara, etc, and visits to family and friends. I drive with my girlfriend the other day of the week. Many of my friends/customers are putting 8 to 12K a year. You? _________________ Jack Staggs
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dawerks Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2010 Posts: 2349
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Jacks wrote: |
Well... I drive a 356 about 6 days a week, give or take, 52 weeks a year. This includes daily drives, road trips to Lake Tahoe, Colorado, Taos, Phoenix/Sedona, Utah, San Fransisco, Santa Barbara, etc, and visits to family and friends. I drive with my girlfriend the other day of the week. Many of my friends/customers are putting 8 to 12K a year. You? |
And he smacks it outta the park!
I put on 0 in my 356.
How often do you find the front drums have to be changed or how long do they last? How much are front drums? (Again I searched but found nothing about vendors or how to get front drums). _________________ "There is only one sin; disconnection from self." |
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Jacks Samba Member
Joined: July 15, 2006 Posts: 2344 Location: San Clemente, Ca.
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Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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At our shop we work on 150 to 200 or more 356's. I would say that on the average we might replace 2 drums per year, including rears. _________________ Jack Staggs
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MMW Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2012 Posts: 846 Location: northern NJ
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:30 am Post subject: |
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dawerks wrote: |
How much do new 356 front drums cost?
I tried to find an online supplier but I didn't really see anything listed (but I didn't search too hard).
I have a set of NOS drums, but I went with discs because I wanted to lower the front of my car as well. Pedal pressure is slightly higher, but it's a good time to replace the master cylinder with a modified dual circuit one for disc brakes. |
Stoddard lists them at $650 each for fronts. _________________ Mic
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Update - third pc. found!
Now just need the case halves.
1965 fenderless beetle |
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bbspdstr Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2012 Posts: 494 Location: PA
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Getting in late on this thread, but two things;
First, I have heard recently that another vendor has surfaced who will reline 356 A/B drums. Anyone know who that is?
From what I understand, the Stoddard relining is subbed to a man in CO. I pay the mark-up to keep the skids greased for moving parts supply forward, not backward by going around a major supplier.
Second, as far as disc brakes go, I sold my nice C fronts to an Aussie who had me put them on a '52 which also got a lower rear section from an early 912, a 5-spd and a Jack Raby engine...but that's another story. (Maybe some pictures could be posted when there is more time to do so.)
I wanted to replace those sold (and from my last Speedster) on my '58 A Coupe and was lucky enough to TRADE for, not buy, the main ingredients at the recent Hershey swap meet. Around $400 worth of "stuff." THAT's "old school."
Like Jack, I get to drive a 356 anytime. Not my own....that never gets used. Heck, I sold my Speedster so I could get to drive it more AND get paid to work on it, not need to pay for it's insurance and borrow it back for any reason I can think of...what's not to like?
-Bruce Baker |
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dawerks Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2010 Posts: 2349
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Jacks wrote: |
At our shop we work on 150 to 200 or more 356's. I would say that on the average we might replace 2 drums per year, including rears. |
I'm moving to California Need any help down there?
We have about 3-4 months of good driving weather (well, less I say but I'm an optimist). I drive my ACVW's about 2-3000 KM's in those months and I've never replaced a front drum in my life come to think of it!
Another reason I went with discs is because my front brakes/front end was incomplete when I got the car. The disc kit was basically bolt on (minus the carrier of course).
FWIW; Relining costs $275 (Colorado vendor who is listed in the samba classifieds). _________________ "There is only one sin; disconnection from self." |
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Split 1 Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2005 Posts: 764 Location: Adelaide. South australia
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:13 am Post subject: |
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If anyone has a set of B complete front drums for sale, after fitting discs, please let me know.
Thanks
Dave |
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Bulli Klinik Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: |
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bbspdstr wrote: |
Getting in late on this thread, but two things;
First, I have heard recently that another vendor has surfaced who will reline 356 A/B drums. Anyone know who that is?
From what I understand, the Stoddard relining is subbed to a man in CO. I pay the mark-up to keep the skids greased for moving parts supply forward, not backward by going around a major supplier.
Second, as far as disc brakes go, I sold my nice C fronts to an Aussie who had me put them on a '52 which also got a lower rear section from an early 912, a 5-spd and a Jack Raby engine...but that's another story. (Maybe some pictures could be posted when there is more time to do so.)
I wanted to replace those sold (and from my last Speedster) on my '58 A Coupe and was lucky enough to TRADE for, not buy, the main ingredients at the recent Hershey swap meet. Around $400 worth of "stuff." THAT's "old school."
Like Jack, I get to drive a 356 anytime. Not my own....that never gets used. Heck, I sold my Speedster so I could get to drive it more AND get paid to work on it, not need to pay for it's insurance and borrow it back for any reason I can think of...what's not to like?
-Bruce Baker |
Hi Bruce,
The name of the machinist who does this is Martin Willis. His shop is called The Machine Shop. It's just south of downtown Colorado Springs.
http://www.mwthemachineshop.com/ _________________ I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs |
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ensys Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 322 Location: America's Automobile Heartland
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Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Gentlemen:
I think it clear that the "disc or drums?" decision has a fair sized emotional component, thus placing in squarely in the "to each his own" category of Life Decisions.
And in my case (while in the throws of project planning back in the early '80s), there was the additional consideration of intended purposes and the practical realities thereof.
When I was doing the Preservation on the Trusty Coupe (yes, it is the only 356 I have ever owned, marking me as something of a piker around here, but a practical attitude born of a fundamental aversion to selling a car), the Plan of the Work was based on it being a regular driver.
Under this condition (in addition to a parallel personal preference), discs off a C were the clear choice of maximum benefit at least cost over time (and use). Of course, when doing that "calculation", it did not hurt that the early drums were the least desirable version of that application.
Once I went beyond my preference for discs on a driver (little and temporary effects from water, consistent performance, low maintenance, easy friction renewal, etc.), I got to likely issues of cost and availability of repair/replacement parts at some point in the future, making discs the obvious choice. The primary influence here was the setup's use on subsequent 911s, thus providing additional assurance of availability.
And as a bonus, the 911 front hubs provide and extra 10mm of front track.
My recent experience with the (easy and relatively inexpensive) install of new front rotors after some 100K mi. has only reinforced the appropriateness of my own very personal decision.
Just one guy's $.02. _________________ Keep 'em flying...
S.J.Szabo |
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bbspdstr Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2012 Posts: 494 Location: PA
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: |
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S.J. shows common sense in his reasoning, so allow me to summarize with a fact- not monetary or philosophical or psychological (although all likely an influence in a change from drums to discs)...Porsche did this themselves DURING the 356 series.
If a pre-C 356 owner wants "the big O"(riginality), fine. It is very true that a drum system WHEN NEW or in "like new" condition, it will perform (under "normal" conditions) as well as (356 Porsche) discs. After that, discs win the hand.
I reread the thread and see one item to mention. Even undriven, drums, as they age and wear, become victims of their design. Aluminum and cast iron just don't like each other all that much and produce bi-metallic corrosion, often creating "hot spots" where the lining shows patches of cracking that become the dreaded high spots that make adjusting of shoes so difficult. They get cut to make them round again, removing more lining that makes the condition worsen, etc. With that, new linings are mandatory. Ship those out, pay the price and get back the ability to make them perform "like new." OR, like S.J or me, buy a new disc for $49 and install that to be like new. Brake pads for a C are available in a cross-over listing in my local AutoZone and very inexpensive.
In closing, I will admit to scouring junkyards starting in '67 for a wrecked C so I could put discs on my 9-year-old Speedster, as that had an early drum "issue." I'm admittedly biased.
(Belatedly, thanks to Mike for the Willis reference, sorry to not see that sooner) _________________ Bruce Baker
www.356restoration.com |
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MMW Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2012 Posts: 846 Location: northern NJ
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Is switching to C discs on an A car a bolt on affair provided you have all the donor parts? _________________ Mic
1959 356 coupe
Missing the original engine 72488
Update - third pc. found!
Now just need the case halves.
1965 fenderless beetle |
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Bulli Klinik Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:01 am Post subject: |
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I believe that you need the spindles, if you go with C brakes. There are new, aftermarket disc kits which fit the earlier spindles. _________________ I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs |
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bbspdstr Samba Member
Joined: May 11, 2012 Posts: 494 Location: PA
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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MMW wrote: |
Is switching to C discs on an A car a bolt on affair provided you have all the donor parts? |
Yes.
Yesterday, Saturday, I had a visit from a young man who bought a project car, a 356 T-6 B. I am doing the tub on the jig and he will be doing his own GC and as much hands-on work as he can. A few weeks ago, I took him out in an SC Cab and let him drive for a while. Yesterday, I took him out in a car just like his will be when finished, same route, same driving some of the time for him. He then announced he is definitely getting a C disc brake set he found, complete and reasonably priced, needing the usual rebuilding. His car will look like and brake like a C, but he was more keen on the rebuildability.
Yes, the aftermarket kits use mostly use A or VW spindles but can be adapted to the beefier B spindles. They also work well, but we snooty elitist 356ers often point out that "those just aren't Porsche, you know." _________________ Bruce Baker
www.356restoration.com |
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ensys Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009 Posts: 322 Location: America's Automobile Heartland
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Mr.McWilliams:
Delightfully, you have asked the most interesting question (in my mind anyway) about the subject.
The answer to the literal of "bolt on" is, yes.
It is possible, even for a dullard as myself, to cleanly and neatly do a proper install without ever touching a drill or modifying a part/structure. Even if the end configuration includes a dual master including reservoir (tho you have to get a little creative with some short pipes (so as to avoid alteration of any existing piping) and the res was, as I recall, off a 914 and whose band support screwed nicely to an existing Factory weldnut.)
And yes, you will need to acquire the complete C upright (the caliper ears) and roller wheel bearings (a bonus in itself), and C axle tubes (more caliper ears). (As to the Ebrake actuation, I confess a small hole in the memory bank. It seems to me that one needs the cables from a C....)
And, in a respectful nod to "originality", buy some new C r.axle hard lines (they're bent nicely, plastic coated and v.durable).
After that, all you have to look forward to, beyond normal service common to both systems, is tossing in some fresh pads every once in a while. If you don't abuse the parking brake, there are no periodic adjustments.
Imagine that. _________________ Keep 'em flying...
S.J.Szabo |
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Jon Schmid Samba Member
Joined: May 29, 2012 Posts: 2034 Location: Southern California
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:37 am Post subject: Inexpensive Front Disc Brake Kit |
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FWIW I think my shoes/drums have somehow fossilized over the years. 1960 356B Roadster, 300K+ estimated miles (the odo was broken for some 15 years), driven daily by my dad for 20+ years, driven by me 1-2 times/week (3-4K/year or so), original drums, shoes relined once about 12 years ago, so about 40 years or so on the original linings. My C coupe of course has discs. As mentioned, drums are fine if properly maintained. I like the discs a tad better but can't even think of altering the B. Besides, it heels and toes a bit easier. Yep, time for another drive.
Have fun out there--
Jon |
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