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neena
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 581
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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 Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Cool. Now drive the wheels off that sucka!!! |
So now that we're able to drive, here's a nagging issue I haven't been able to resolve, since even before the car was off the road for 2 months:
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I have sprayed just about every type of lubricating spray available on this door hinge to rid it of a very loud, very annoying squeak. After trying so many spray products, I thought 3-in-1 oil would save the day...however, today I gave it more than one liberal dose of 3-in-1, but the squeak - or squawk - remains!
Any idea how I can get rid of it? It's incredibly annoying  |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22396
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Repeated blasts with an air hammer on the hinge itself. This should knock the rust out of the hinge. Then lube with 30W motor oil.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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jadney
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005
Posts: 263
Location: Madison, WI, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| neena wrote: |
I have sprayed just about every type of lubricating spray available on this door hinge to rid it of a very loud, very annoying squeak. After trying so many spray products, I thought 3-in-1 oil would save the day...however, today I gave it more than one liberal dose of 3-in-1, but the squeak - or squawk - remains!
Any idea how I can get rid of it? It's incredibly annoying |
There's a plastic cap on top of each hinge. Pry that cap off and use a small screwdriver to dig out any rust from the cavity that's under there. Then fill the cavity with some thin oil, like WD-40, LPS-1, Liquid Wrench, or Kroil. Work the hinge open and closed a few times, then let it penetrate for a day or so. Replace the caps if you think the car may get rained on.
Repeat, and work the door a little more.
Repeat, and work the door a lot more.
Once you hear any change in the squeak, soak out the penetrating oil with a rag and replace with SAE 30 or so, and replace the plastic caps.
Do all 4 hinges, not just the squeaky one, because if they are left like this, the stress will eventually break some of the sheet metal they are attached to.
These doors all have this problem if they never get any lubrication. A couple drops every few years seems to be enough.
_________________
Jim Adney
50+ years of VW Type 3 experience
Specializing in VW Type 3 parts and service |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22396
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| jadney wrote: |
| neena wrote: |
I have sprayed just about every type of lubricating spray available on this door hinge to rid it of a very loud, very annoying squeak. After trying so many spray products, I thought 3-in-1 oil would save the day...however, today I gave it more than one liberal dose of 3-in-1, but the squeak - or squawk - remains!
Any idea how I can get rid of it? It's incredibly annoying |
There's a plastic cap on top of each hinge. Pry that cap off and use a small screwdriver to dig out any rust from the cavity that's under there. Then fill the cavity with some thin oil, like WD-40, LPS-1, Liquid Wrench, or Kroil. Work the hinge open and closed a few times, then let it penetrate for a day or so. Replace the caps if you think the car may get rained on.
Repeat, and work the door a little more.
Repeat, and work the door a lot more.
Once you hear any change in the squeak, soak out the penetrating oil with a rag and replace with SAE 30 or so, and replace the plastic caps.
Do all 4 hinges, not just the squeaky one, because if they are left like this, the stress will eventually break some of the sheet metal they are attached to.
These doors all have this problem if they never get any lubrication. A couple drops every few years seems to be enough. |
A mix of ATF and acetone makes for a good penetrating oil too.
Once you get the doors "squeak free", add some 30W oil to the hinges at every oil change (like recommended in the owners manual). 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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neena
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2010
Posts: 581
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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I took the caps off and oiled the hinges. I still can't get the squeaky one to stop squeaking but I'll keep repeating the procedure over the next few days. Thanks for the tips!!
We also did our first valve adjustment today and after 85 miles, on the 1/2 side only #1 exhaust was a tight .006 and all the rest were good. On the 3/4 side unfortunately everything had shrunk to .003 which is a little alarming after only 85 miles of driving.
Of course this is the head that has always given us grief in the form of tight valves so we're not all that surprised. Haven't left yet, but while away should we just check the valves every few days to see if things "even out" (not that they ever have) or should we just leave this car at home for fear of a valve problem on that side? Maybe it's over-reacting but I sure would hate to have a problem!
One of the many reasons we reused the old heads is that nothing was awry with the valves, seats, or springs. No springs or stems were any higher than any others and the seats looked fine all around. |
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KTPhil 
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Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33986
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Did you re-torque the head nuts? Shrinking valve gaps may be due to loosening of the long studs. 85 miles is not a lot for this to happen, but if it is this cause, it will repeat and get worse if they aren't re-torqued. |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Did you re-torque the head nuts? Shrinking valve gaps may be due to loosening of the long studs. 85 miles is not a lot for this to happen, but if it is this cause, it will repeat and get worse if they aren't re-torqued. |
No, we haven't retorqued the heads yet. I figured it'd be way too soon to have to even think about it.....plus we could only get to the bottom nuts anyway. Truth be told, it seems a little too soon for there to be any issue at all. We can torque the heads back up but does this not bode well regardless? |
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Donnie strickland
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Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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The problem is definitely seems to be in the heads, since it occurs even on a different engine. Just keep an eye on it. As for how long they'll last... I don't know. As soon as you can after your vacation, you might want to pull them and have them worked. Mine had no problem with holding adjustment, but when I pulled the engine I sent them out anyway.
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| neena wrote: |
I took the caps off and oiled the hinges. I still can't get the squeaky one to stop squeaking but I'll keep repeating the procedure over the next few days. Thanks for the tips!!
We also did our first valve adjustment today and after 85 miles, on the 1/2 side only #1 exhaust was a tight .006 and all the rest were good. On the 3/4 side unfortunately everything had shrunk to .003 which is a little alarming after only 85 miles of driving.
Of course this is the head that has always given us grief in the form of tight valves so we're not all that surprised. Haven't left yet, but while away should we just check the valves every few days to see if things "even out" (not that they ever have) or should we just leave this car at home for fear of a valve problem on that side? Maybe it's over-reacting but I sure would hate to have a problem!
One of the many reasons we reused the old heads is that nothing was awry with the valves, seats, or springs. No springs or stems were any higher than any others and the seats looked fine all around. |
Adjust the valves to .008" before the trip and check them when you get where you are going. Also, at that time, pull the plugs so you can see how they are burning.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| neena wrote: |
I took the caps off and oiled the hinges. I still can't get the squeaky one to stop squeaking but I'll keep repeating the procedure over the next few days. Thanks for the tips!!
We also did our first valve adjustment today and after 85 miles, on the 1/2 side only #1 exhaust was a tight .006 and all the rest were good. On the 3/4 side unfortunately everything had shrunk to .003 which is a little alarming after only 85 miles of driving.
Of course this is the head that has always given us grief in the form of tight valves so we're not all that surprised. Haven't left yet, but while away should we just check the valves every few days to see if things "even out" (not that they ever have) or should we just leave this car at home for fear of a valve problem on that side? Maybe it's over-reacting but I sure would hate to have a problem!
One of the many reasons we reused the old heads is that nothing was awry with the valves, seats, or springs. No springs or stems were any higher than any others and the seats looked fine all around. |
Adjust the valves to .008" before the trip and check them when you get where you are going. Also, at that time, pull the plugs so you can see how they are burning. |
Admit it, you just don't want us to have to prefer the Type 1 over the Type 3 for vacation  . We already adjusted the problem ones to .008" in anticipation of them getting tighter. We're looking at a 300 mile run tomorrow FWIW.
Also, I found a post from when we did this trip last year and were having similar issues (though it's been an issue for the whole 14k miles we put on the other motor).....we checked the valves in a campground and they were tight, etc. and we didn't die and continued to adjust at shorter than factory recommended intervals. Not ideal, but we only need a few weeks out of this as we've got another motor in the works! |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| neena wrote: |
I took the caps off and oiled the hinges. I still can't get the squeaky one to stop squeaking but I'll keep repeating the procedure over the next few days. Thanks for the tips!!
We also did our first valve adjustment today and after 85 miles, on the 1/2 side only #1 exhaust was a tight .006 and all the rest were good. On the 3/4 side unfortunately everything had shrunk to .003 which is a little alarming after only 85 miles of driving.
Of course this is the head that has always given us grief in the form of tight valves so we're not all that surprised. Haven't left yet, but while away should we just check the valves every few days to see if things "even out" (not that they ever have) or should we just leave this car at home for fear of a valve problem on that side? Maybe it's over-reacting but I sure would hate to have a problem!
One of the many reasons we reused the old heads is that nothing was awry with the valves, seats, or springs. No springs or stems were any higher than any others and the seats looked fine all around. |
Adjust the valves to .008" before the trip and check them when you get where you are going. Also, at that time, pull the plugs so you can see how they are burning. |
Admit it, you just don't want us to have to prefer the Type 1 over the Type 3 for vacation . We already adjusted the problem ones to .008" in anticipation of them getting tighter. We're looking at a 300 mile run tomorrow FWIW.
Also, I found a post from when we did this trip last year and were having similar issues (though it's been an issue for the whole 14k miles we put on the other motor).....we checked the valves in a campground and they were tight, etc. and we didn't die and continued to adjust at shorter than factory recommended intervals. Not ideal, but we only need a few weeks out of this as we've got another motor in the works! |
A little birdie told me that you'll have a better vacation setup this time next year, so save your pennies, LOL.
Seriously, though, heat is usually what makes more frequent valve adjustments and head torque-ings necessary (barring any mechanical irregularities in the heads, which you are not seeing), which is why I'd like you to examine the plugs when youse gets where youse is going to see if youse is too lean, see?
Monitor your engine heat, too. You know what is too hot.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
A little birdie told me that you'll have a better vacation setup this time next year, so save your pennies, LOL.
Seriously, though, heat is usually what makes more frequent valve adjustments and head torque-ings necessary (barring any mechanical irregularities in the heads, which you are not seeing), which is why I'd like you to examine the plugs when youse gets where youse is going to see if youse is too lean, see?
Monitor your engine heat, too. You know what is too hot. |
Man, I forking hope so!
Jessica is going to kill me, but I packed the sniffer in the car. Of course all it ever told us was that we were mad lean all the time, but hey, why not check anyway? Other than injectors being bad on one side, I don't know why we'd have lateral leanness or heat on two different motors. I mean, what in the injection system is side specific? Nothing, right?
When the heads were off last week, all plugs looked a nice tan but for #3 which was a little lean looking but still in the tan range. It also had cracks in #3 radiating down from the Time Sert toward the valve seat in addition to the cracks between valves on #4 we reported back in December  . I don't think these heads are in it for the long haul! |
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jadney
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Joined: January 13, 2005
Posts: 263
Location: Madison, WI, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| A mix of ATF and acetone makes for a good penetrating oil too. |
Wow, I never thought of adding acetone to ATF. Sounds pretty agressive. Any chance this will lift paint? If so, you might want to be careful using this around painted parts.
_________________
Jim Adney
50+ years of VW Type 3 experience
Specializing in VW Type 3 parts and service |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22396
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| jadney wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| A mix of ATF and acetone makes for a good penetrating oil too. |
Wow, I never thought of adding acetone to ATF. Sounds pretty agressive. Any chance this will lift paint? If so, you might want to be careful using this around painted parts. |
To be honest, I've never used it, so I don't know. I've heard from quite a few people who have tried it, and it actually works better than PBlaster.
I've got a torch and an air hammer, so I'm all set on that end.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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jadney
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005
Posts: 263
Location: Madison, WI, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| jadney wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| A mix of ATF and acetone makes for a good penetrating oil too. |
Wow, I never thought of adding acetone to ATF. Sounds pretty agressive. Any chance this will lift paint? If so, you might want to be careful using this around painted parts. |
To be honest, I've never used it, so I don't know. I've heard from quite a few people who have tried it, and it actually works better than PBlaster.
I've got a torch and an air hammer, so I'm all set on that end. |
I'd be cautious using that combo around paint or plastic. Acetone is a pretty agressive solvent and it will ruin some paints and plastics. ATF is a pretty good penetrant on its own, but if you want to thin it, I'd suggest mineral spirits. Acetone also evaporates really quickly, so mineral spirits will have a much longer lasting effect.
_________________
Jim Adney
50+ years of VW Type 3 experience
Specializing in VW Type 3 parts and service |
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Donnie strickland
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Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| D/A/N wrote: |
| When the heads were off last week, all plugs looked a nice tan but for #3 which was a little lean looking but still in the tan range. It also had cracks in #3 radiating down from the Time Sert toward the valve seat in addition to the cracks between valves on #4 we reported back in December . I don't think these heads are in it for the long haul! |
I think you've found your answer. If those cracks are bad enough, they're letting air in, which leans out the mixture on that head, which makes the temp go way up, which as Tram points out, makes for tight valves.
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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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blues90
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Joined: March 14, 2009
Posts: 1912
Location: Hollywood ,CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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I have never seen so many problems with a FI engine . When I rebuilt my engine in 97 I used a 72 case and heads I had here . I torqued the heads still using the stock 10 MM case studs . The plug holes were are stripped so I had the place that did the valves and fly cut install timeserts. They also replaced the guides on all 8 valves. They used still good exhaust valves they save and replaced the intakes with German ones.
At that time I never heard of re torquing the heads I just went by the Bentley and my valves never got tight they only get a bit loose after 4K miles but not much .
If one had to pay for all this to remove the engine and pull the tin just to re-torque the heads it would cost a fortune . I've just never heard of doing this and never read any T3 manual that suggests it. Is this something new people found needed?
I have a few oil leaks that took some time to show up and from what I can tell they are from the rear main seal and the auto trans converter seal but just drips nothing pouring out that over time has left a thin film of oil on the top of the case but not on the tin. I see a bit of oil on the tin between #3 & #4 cylinders that fit between the cylinders for better cooling but see no oil leaks at the cooler seals so I don't know where it is coming from . In order to check this out I would need the 4 runner hoses and make new gaskets for the runners to intake spacers and remove all the tin. I just clean it off and keep checking the oil level . It's just wet not dripping. I'd like to see what the cooler looks like where you can't see the actual fins. But the little I drove now I am in no rush . There is no oil on the cylinder fins or the heads . As far as I can tell the cooler sets above #3 cylinder so the oil I see on that tin must be blown back . I can't tell if it's auto trans oil or engine oil plus on the tin that is the firewall there is an open area for the fan air to get through the cooler and out. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| blues90 wrote: |
I have never seen so many problems with a FI engine . When I rebuilt my engine in 97 I used a 72 case and heads I had here . I torqued the heads still using the stock 10 MM case studs . The plug holes were are stripped so I had the place that did the valves and fly cut install timeserts. They also replaced the guides on all 8 valves. They used still good exhaust valves they save and replaced the intakes with German ones.
At that time I never heard of re torquing the heads I just went by the Bentley and my valves never got tight they only get a bit loose after 4K miles but not much .
If one had to pay for all this to remove the engine and pull the tin just to re-torque the heads it would cost a fortune . I've just never heard of doing this and never read any T3 manual that suggests it. Is this something new people found needed?
I have a few oil leaks that took some time to show up and from what I can tell they are from the rear main seal and the auto trans converter seal but just drips nothing pouring out that over time has left a thin film of oil on the top of the case but not on the tin. I see a bit of oil on the tin between #3 & #4 cylinders that fit between the cylinders for better cooling but see no oil leaks at the cooler seals so I don't know where it is coming from . In order to check this out I would need the 4 runner hoses and make new gaskets for the runners to intake spacers and remove all the tin. I just clean it off and keep checking the oil level . It's just wet not dripping. I'd like to see what the cooler looks like where you can't see the actual fins. But the little I drove now I am in no rush . There is no oil on the cylinder fins or the heads . As far as I can tell the cooler sets above #3 cylinder so the oil I see on that tin must be blown back . I can't tell if it's auto trans oil or engine oil plus on the tin that is the firewall there is an open area for the fan air to get through the cooler and out. |
And there you basically have it.
In 1997 you could still buy good German parts, even through VW! That's exactly why back then you could quickly cobble stuff together and it would run forever (we all did it on our own cars!), but today you can take the ultimate, utmost care and still wind up with a 'WTF' disaster.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Tram
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Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Donnie strickland wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
| When the heads were off last week, all plugs looked a nice tan but for #3 which was a little lean looking but still in the tan range. It also had cracks in #3 radiating down from the Time Sert toward the valve seat in addition to the cracks between valves on #4 we reported back in December . I don't think these heads are in it for the long haul! |
I think you've found your answer. If those cracks are bad enough, they're letting air in, which leans out the mixture on that head, which makes the temp go way up, which as Tram points out, makes for tight valves. |
Yep- I just now saw the little tidbit about cracks from the spark plug hole down to the valve. this is likely why #3 is running a little leaner and the resultant heat on that side is why the valves are going snug so fast.
Cracks between the valves on the inside aren't a big concern but cracks from the plug hole to the valve are.
That's not to say your trip is doomed by any means, just be aware that this is the cause and nurse it.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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D/A/N
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Joined: August 13, 2010
Posts: 2227
Location: 11222
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Donnie strickland wrote: |
| D/A/N wrote: |
| When the heads were off last week, all plugs looked a nice tan but for #3 which was a little lean looking but still in the tan range. It also had cracks in #3 radiating down from the Time Sert toward the valve seat in addition to the cracks between valves on #4 we reported back in December . I don't think these heads are in it for the long haul! |
I think you've found your answer. If those cracks are bad enough, they're letting air in, which leans out the mixture on that head, which makes the temp go way up, which as Tram points out, makes for tight valves. |
Yep- I just now saw the little tidbit about cracks from the spark plug hole down to the valve. this is likely why #3 is running a little leaner and the resultant heat on that side is why the valves are going snug so fast.
Cracks between the valves on the inside aren't a big concern but cracks from the plug hole to the valve are.
That's not to say your trip is doomed by any means, just be aware that this is the cause and nurse it. |
I get that about the cracks but here's the thing: we've had tight valves on that head going back more than a year but the cracks showed up sometime after we had the head off and put in the Time Sert in December. The only crack then was the one between the valves on #4. Then we had all those lean AFR #'s we posted back in December and January.
We plugged in the O2 sensor today before hitting the road and by the time we'd driven 1/4 mile we had an idle AFR of 15!!! Backed it down at the MPS to about 12.5 b/c at that point the idle smoothed out very dramatically. Then, we realized it had climbed to over 1000rpm. When we brought the idle back down to around 850, the AFR changed to 13.1 (but was less smooth) but we left it there and drove off bearing in mind that 13 is the target #.
220 miles later and the valves are still clacking away loudly. We'll check them again in the AM before continuing our drive but in advance, I can't help but wonder how much the leanness was working against us. We didn't have a single reading over 15 whereas over the winter we regularly had AFRs from 16-18 as we posted back then. |
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