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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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 Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Yikes! Strange weather. We are getting 70cms (2'4") of snow tonight and tomorrow |
well that is a lot of snow
I'm thankful for the chinook winds that bring the +10 temps in the middle of winter even if it wreaks havoc on my sinuses. It certainly dries up the roads quick.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Decided to try a battery, just to see if anything was working… got one headlight and the wipers  . I did notice that the push button unit was a little wobbly, and some of the buttons were sticking, so I decided to pull it. I guess I’m going to find out what a rebuild on one of these looks like, as I don’t think I’m going to find one around here (or anywhere) very easily.  It'll be a learning experience if nothing else, I don't have much to lose.
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| bobnorman wrote: |
Decided to try a battery, just to see if anything was working… got one headlight and the wipers . I did notice that the push button unit was a little wobbly, and some of the buttons were sticking, so I decided to pull it. I guess I’m going to find out what a rebuild on one of these looks like, as I don’t think I’m going to find one around here (or anywhere) very easily. It'll be a learning experience if nothing else, I don't have much to lose.
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I sold the one off the car I ended up keeping as few months later. I've been debating getting the conversion kit to steer away from this unit as there aren't many around that may be functional. I bet there are some out there though. Just have to search then out. Look forward to reading your rebuild on your square. Birch Green is a cool color.
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, I'm a birch green fan too. I thought I should throw in a bit of background on this car, some of this info was in other threads, but I guess I should put it all together here.
This car was bought by my dad in about 1990. It came as part of a deal that included a ton of VW parts and 6 cars, all of which had been contained in a VW repair shop that had been closed in 1975. The owner of the shop had been accidently killed in a hunting accident, and his family shut the place down and left it untouched until dad came along and bought the works of it. The car’s history before that is spotty, I know it was purchased in Goose Bay, Labrador judging by the dealer sticker on the back and the permit stickers on the windshield, and also by the ton of sand inside the car. (Goose is a very sandy area) and also by the relatively little rust (they don’t use salt on the roads in Labrador- too cold).
Dad had it in his garage for years, and was going to get around to it one of these days, but with so many other projects on the go, he never did. So, fast-forward to last year, mom had decided to sell the house and I was tasked with emptying dad’s garage. I live 200 miles away, but luckily had a bit of time, and was able to sell off most of the cars and parts, but did keep a couple vehicles and parts that I would need.
The car was last licensed in 1975 and has 59,055 (what I believe to be original) miles. Despite the relatively low-mileage it hasn’t had an easy life in those 11 years it was on the road. I guess Newfoundland and Labrador in the 60s and 70s wasn’t the smoothest place to run a car in. Its original Birch Green was re-sprayed forest green at some point, but this seems to be easily scraped off.
The rear badge is missing, but the S trim package combined with the single side draft carb 1500 engine leads me to believe this may have been an "E" badged car. I did buy an S badge at one point to see if the holes lined up which they do, but have since been told the E holes are in the same place as well, so I’m still not sure which it is. There’s no faded area that I can use to determine which letter was there, however there is a faded area where the “Volkswagen” script above was, so I think it may have been taken off for the re-spray and not replaced. Maybe it’ll be apparent once the forest green is removed.
This is the clean out stage, with most everything gone
On the way out the door to her new home with me.
And that’s the story so far. Given everything else I have going on, it’ll be a slow build for sure. |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose if you got the birth cirtificate it would tell you if it was an E.
That Birch green is really nice when new.
I had to laugh when i saw the monster mirror on the passenger side, the stock ones are pretty small to try to see anything with.
_________________
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Cool story but unfortunate for the former shop owner. Your dads garage had to be a treasure trove of goodies for all sorts of VWs. Maybe you'll learn the markings once you remove the forest green on the hatch.
I ordered a birth certificate on my 63. I'd like to try rebuild it and I know it'll take some time. But as my son gets a little older as years pass, maybe he'll dig having to wrench a little on it. I haven;t done anything to it but since last week, I'v happy the state issued me the title to the car so I can now do more collectiing of parts for it.
Have you had the chance to find out if the enigne VIN is within the year/month range of the cars body/pan VIN? Mine's from a later FI engine as Tram pointed out. Would be nice to find a early case that the VINs numbers are within the prodcution range but that maybe a hard search. I've also been debating a 12v conversion rather than 6v. Have you put much thought into that or are you going all out with your keep it stock build?
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| W1K1 wrote: |
I suppose if you got the birth cirtificate it would tell you if it was an E.
That Birch green is really nice when new.
I had to laugh when i saw the monster mirror on the passenger side, the stock ones are pretty small to try to see anything with. |
Yeah I wondered that about the B/C, I guess without an engine number to give them, it would at least tell me if it was a 1500 single carb?
I think the mirror may have come from a bus. Yeah, Whoever put that on there was sure determined to get a good view of their right side  |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| MonT3 wrote: |
Cool story but unfortunate for the former shop owner. Your dads garage had to be a treasure trove of goodies for all sorts of VWs. Maybe you'll learn the markings once you remove the forest green on the hatch.
I ordered a birth certificate on my 63. I'd like to try rebuild it and I know it'll take some time. But as my son gets a little older as years pass, maybe he'll dig having to wrench a little on it. I haven;t done anything to it but since last week, I'v happy the state issued me the title to the car so I can now do more collectiing of parts for it.
Have you had the chance to find out if the enigne VIN is within the year/month range of the cars body/pan VIN? Mine's from a later FI engine as Tram pointed out. Would be nice to find a early case that the VINs numbers are within the prodcution range but that maybe a hard search. I've also been debating a 12v conversion rather than 6v. Have you put much thought into that or are you going all out with your keep it stock build? |
I'm sure your son will get into turning wrenches with you. I got my love of VWs from my dad when I was small, we ended up working on a few cars together, including my '63 bug that I ran for a few years, some really good memories there. My nephew is keen on working on this one with me, so it'll be cool to pass on the knowledge and share the vw love 
Good that you got the title, too bad you sold some of the parts before you knew you were going to buy it though. You should find most of what you need here all the same. My plan is to keep it totally stock, including the 6volt system. The more I read here about 6v the more I learn that a clean restored 6v system is just as bright and strong as a 12v system. Besides, I've got a couple of pretty cool T-3 6volt headlights I want to use.
They're like these (found in the gallery)
The engine number looks nothing like anything I've seen here, but the OG number has been filed off and the case has been re-stamped. I know in Canada they had the TS line, and the fact that the number starts with TS makes me think that it is connected to that somehow. |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Looking forward to putting a wrench in his hands and telling him to have a go at it.
Vin... That's right.  I read this yesterday and it didn't dawn on me until you brought it up. That is an interesting thing you have there. If you decide to get a birth cert, you could send off that VIN and see if they can validate that the engine was OG to the car or not. But by the sounds of the comments from folks that have been into this much longer than I, maybe the dealerships may hold/held the key to your engine mystery.
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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So I got my certificate today!! 
It seems my car did originally come with a single-carb engine, and it does have the S trim, which, I think makes it an E.
I have a bunch of question though. Mainly, why wouldn't the certificate say E on it? Does anyone know if they issue certificates with E on it? Instead it seems they indicate 1500/1500S..like a combo of both. I think Wolfsburg does acknowledge the E, because I have a 1964 owner's manual that says VW 1500 on the cover, but 1500E in small print on the back (inside it shows an S model and describes only the single carb engine).
Also, anyone know what an M-253 or an M 445 is? Gas heater maybe?
My car has chord brown cloth, not leatherette, so I think they are wrong there? Or maybe I'm reading it wrong??
Also, under M297 it indicates sideways blinking lights? Are they talking about side markers? My car doesn't have side markers, no indication that it ever did...
Can anyone help make sense of this? |
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Glad to see you got the cert and that was some fast delivery there. Looks like you got a few mystery items like my square. Not sure what M253 would be and there's been some discussion with some possibilities of what M445 might be. What's interesting is the side markers. Could it be possible they were filled in when the re-spray took place? Maybe when you take the fenders off you may be able to see if it was filled in?
I believe I read a comment made that the heaters were an after market thing. Not sure if that could have been ordered at the factory BUT HTE Cert could have some info that may not be accurate to your car like your seats. Is there anything else unique to the car that others may not have?
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild |
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Too funny, I just posted on your thread.
I haven't had the fenders off yet, but I've looked and felt inside, can't seem to see any evidence of anything being filled, also, don't see any evidence of wires. I'll have to explore a little further to be sure though. Anyone have a pic of where the wires come out for the side markers?
All the 64 up Canadian models I've heard of so far had a gas heater, I think it may have very well been a dealer installed thing though. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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I'm wondering if the M253 is the E trim option. we'd need to see if this appears on other E models with certificates.
We also need to see if maybe E cars came sans gas heater and side markers.
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MonT3
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2012
Posts: 1988
Location: South Dakota
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| bobnorman wrote: |
Too funny, I just posted on your thread.
I haven't had the fenders off yet, but I've looked and felt inside, can't seem to see any evidence of anything being filled, also, don't see any evidence of wires. I'll have to explore a little further to be sure though. Anyone have a pic of where the wires come out for the side markers?
All the 64 up Canadian models I've heard of so far had a gas heater, I think it may have very well been a dealer installed thing though. |
I haven't dung into the car as it's in storage. I would imagine the wire would come into the car in the upper corner of the side wall of the car, like behind the fuse box. Also, your cert says it blinked so it may have been tied to the front blinkers as well? Maybe check your wiring on the fuse box for the blinker and see if there's a loose wire or one that possibly been cut. Just a thought on that.
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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
I'm wondering if the M253 is the E trim option. we'd need to see if this appears on other E models with certificates.
We also need to see if maybe E cars came sans gas heater and side markers. |
That could be a good point there Tram...
Mine did come with a Gas heater, but it wasn't the usual Eberspacher. It was a "Perfection"...had only ever seen Ebers in VWs prior to this. |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22728
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| bobnorman wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
I'm wondering if the M253 is the E trim option. we'd need to see if this appears on other E models with certificates.
We also need to see if maybe E cars came sans gas heater and side markers. |
That could be a good point there Tram...
Mine did come with a Gas heater, but it wasn't the usual Eberspacher. It was a "Perfection"...had only ever seen Ebers in VWs prior to this. |
Ebers were the factory M code ones AFAIK.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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W1K1
Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004
Posts: 4921
Location: Southern AB
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bobnorman
Samba Newfoundlander
Joined: August 09, 2010
Posts: 1389
Location: Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting Mark… That’s a 65 manual correct? I’ve got a 64 manual where, as I said it’s only indicated in small print on the back, I’ll get a pic tomorrow.
Did you get a birth certificate for yours? If so, did it have a 253 code? Could prove Tram’s theory about 253 being an E code… |
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W1K1
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Location: Southern AB
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