_________________ 74 VW Thing - Walküre
78 GMC Motorhome - Valhalla
"Patina" my ass, that's rust
Recovering Split Bus Addict
Washington State 181 (Thing) Registry - current tally: 58
World 181 Registry Map: http://www.zeemaps.com/394427 Gitm registared boys!
Officially, there are only 98 181s in the world
I will never go back to having a T1 in my Thing again.
If you go with the pancake cooling shroud that comes stock on the bus and Porsche T4 engines, you'll have a lot of cutting to do to fit the sucker in. However, if you go with a conversion kit (like Grundy and I did) then it'll bolt up very like a high performance T1 engine - same mounts, almost the same clearance.
There are two kinds of conversion shroud: DTM (sold by Jake Raby) and a Porsche look-a-like (sold by discount shops everywhere). Raby had tested the Porsche-type shrouds and found them lacking, tested the DTM shroud and found it awesome, and eventually bought the rights to make and sell the DTM shrouds.
I spent a lot of money on my conversion. $8k (deep discount) for the hand-built-by-Raby engine, $2k (+2 more $k when I ripped it apart twice) for the transaxle, a couple more thousand for the awesome Tangerine exhaust, and several more dollars on bits and pieces (oil cooler, fuel pump/filter, electronic ignition, truss bar, etc). It took me 6 months or so worth of weekends to get everything installed and running. I believe it's running with about 180-190 HP.
Grundy's engine doesn't turn as much power as mine (still a bunch more torque than a T1), so he didn't need to upgrade his transaxle or reinforce his engine mounts, nor add an external oil cooler. He bought a T4 engine from a builder in California and we installed the DTM kit in his garage and patio. I think he went all in for under $4k and had it done in under a month. Stock, that engine has 90 HP.
Joined: April 12, 2004 Posts: 1027 Location: crockett, ca
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:54 am Post subject:
Wow you guys are crazy putting a type4 in there
Ok, ok, here's an older pic of the 914 2.0L in my Thing, it's out for a rebuild right now, speaking of which, gotta call the guy...
_________________ My Oval Project
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 6925 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:53 pm Post subject:
Happiness is a 481. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"
Joined: February 23, 2005 Posts: 213 Location: Stockton, CA
Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:39 pm Post subject:
[img]
If you plan on changing engines a lot or adding a type 4/914 I might suggest a removable section. The engine just slides straight out and in with ease. GI Joe has this mod for a Type 1.[/img] _________________ There are three kinds of people. Those that can add and those that can't.
_________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
- Dr. Seuss
VW 181 Archive: https://sites.google.com/site/jeffgilleland/vw_archive
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| |_______| '73 Thing "481"
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and I am not talking about the VW K70, a watercooled front engine car designed by NSU from the early 1970s… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_K70
Joined: October 11, 2011 Posts: 291 Location: Auburn, WA
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:02 am Post subject:
sixty9fasty wrote:
Wow you guys are crazy putting a type4 in there
Ok, ok, here's an older pic of the 914 2.0L in my Thing, it's out for a rebuild right now, speaking of which, gotta call the guy...
I am amazed that the belt doesnt slip off.. it looks like it wants to slide off the sides. Is there a retainer of some kind that prevents it from doing that?
Joined: December 26, 2004 Posts: 392 Location: Silicon Valley
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:00 am Post subject:
Bashr52 wrote:
ajbuchok wrote:
How are you guys handling secondary oil coolers?
If you go with the DTM from jake as shown above, you will not need one.
From driving these Things for years, and now on my 3 engine, I feel that even stock under normal conditions they all run on the hot side. Getting enough air to the back end is hard, just like a Bus.
I have no extra oil cooling system on my DTM type 4 with a stock rebuilt 2000 cc ’76 bus engine and it is great for daily driving, but I live in the Silicon Valley and the weather is nice, normally less than 85 degrees. When I drive across central CA. on the flat lands in 100 + degrees weather it is okay; oil temp runs around 225. Mind you the setup sheetmetal and all is not as tight as a stock engine. The heads temp may be running okay because of the DTM setup, but I do not have a head temp sensor yet.
I just made a run to the classic and pushed the car over a notorious hill into L.A. called the grapevine or Tejon Pass. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapevine,_California http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tejon_Pass
Doing that extreme driving in 100+ degrees it takes a good 30 min. to get over the mountain. It was at 240 on the oil temp at the top of the hill and I forced myself to drive at 45 MPH up the long steep grade with a loaded car. I know some of the other bus folks did it at 35 MPH to avoid overheating. If you take your time and don’t push the engine it is fine. For something like this I will need to add an extra remote oil cooler in the future for pulling a trailer and other extreme driving situations in 100 + degree weather. Most of the type 4 folks I know have extra coolers. I think I am the only one that does not but I wanted to test it and see what I could get away with. In situations like that if you drive it like a normal air-cooled VW you will be fine.
But so far 2 years into this new DTM type 4 set up and I am relatively please. I hope when I run this engine out I can do it again. The other bonus with the type 4 is from what I understand is, if treated well, you will normally get more miles out of those engines then the normal type 1. Hopefully I can get a good 150,000 miles out of this rebuild. But we shall see. _________________ "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
- Dr. Seuss
VW 181 Archive: https://sites.google.com/site/jeffgilleland/vw_archive
| _______
| |_______| '73 Thing "481"
| _\_\_|_/_/_
| |O||_4_||O|
| [ ]=====[ ]
and I am not talking about the VW K70, a watercooled front engine car designed by NSU from the early 1970s… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_K70
Joined: September 16, 2007 Posts: 522 Location: California
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject:
DougD wrote:
sixty9fasty wrote:
Wow you guys are crazy putting a type4 in there
Ok, ok, here's an older pic of the 914 2.0L in my Thing, it's out for a rebuild right now, speaking of which, gotta call the guy...
I am amazed that the belt doesnt slip off.. it looks like it wants to slide off the sides. Is there a retainer of some kind that prevents it from doing that?
Ive never seen the 914 setup before. A similar belt routing and fan setup was used on the Corvair. 2 million of them were built and belt issues were rare.
That's not a stock 914 setup with the horizontal fan. That appears to be some other aftermarket or homebuilt conversion. The 914 cooling system is just like a bus cooling system save a few minor differences in tin and random things.
T4 is nice....I have one in my Thing too. But keeping it cool is always the chanllenge. HP = HEAT. Bump up the HP and you have no choice but to add aux cooler. I've noticed with mine that oil temp is VERY dependent on speed/RPMs. Higher speed & RPMs = more heat. Keep it at granny speed and no heat problems....granted my Thing has a few other mod's working against it staying frigid. YMMV
Joined: April 12, 2004 Posts: 1027 Location: crockett, ca
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:13 pm Post subject:
nikita wrote:
DougD wrote:
sixty9fasty wrote:
Wow you guys are crazy putting a type4 in there
Ok, ok, here's an older pic of the 914 2.0L in my Thing, it's out for a rebuild right now, speaking of which, gotta call the guy...
I am amazed that the belt doesnt slip off.. it looks like it wants to slide off the sides. Is there a retainer of some kind that prevents it from doing that?
Ive never seen the 914 setup before. A similar belt routing and fan setup was used on the Corvair. 2 million of them were built and belt issues were rare.
Yes, this motor is far from stock... kinda, it was originally built by Lukes & Shoreman back in the mid 80's.
The alt/fan is a 911 that has been laid horizontally, the only issue I have with the belt is that it does rub on the case in one spot, and I threw it once or twice, ended up going to a slightly narrower and shorter belt to sit down in the 90deg pulleys(might be the cause of the rubbing as it did not show signs of this with the old belt size IIRC)
The other oddities of the motor are the 912 style lifters that were fitted with brass sleeves, and the 928 rods(much longer than stock, with an oiling hole drilled through to the wrist pin), to fit the rod they machined two blocks of aluminum about 3/4" thick for between the case and barrels.
The rod journals were also offest ground 2mm as the rods are slightly smaller than stock type4... About all I know about the differences... _________________ My Oval Project
Joined: August 03, 2009 Posts: 61 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas
Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject:
Do you guys have any tips on keeping a type 4 cooler? I was thinking about running a second oil cooler above the transaxle and maybe open up some breather holes behing my rear license plate.
Joined: August 29, 2006 Posts: 4367 Location: Northern California
Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject:
nikita wrote:
A similar belt routing and fan setup was used on the Corvair. 2 million of them were built and belt issues were rare.
Actually flipped belts were practically routine. However over the past 40 plus years they've developed fixes that make it less problematic. Clarks Corvairs has specially designed V belts, guides, tensioners, pulleys and the later magnesium fans all help.
[img]
If you plan on changing engines a lot or adding a type 4/914 I might suggest a removable section. The engine just slides straight out and in with ease. GI Joe has this mod for a Type 1.[/img]
were is GI joe. this mod is so cool.
does he sell a kit?
thanks,,
68T1 _________________ back to jeeps, my true love... I-6's
finding vw parts that are not junk (even new) , is way too hard!
mines done, and selling 68T1 with no paint. (primer)
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How's the budget?
