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avus
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 268
Location: Drain, Oregon
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 Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:51 pm Post subject: Craigslist find - hotrod 36 |
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Found this engine on Craigslist. It came out of a nice old glass buggy. I ran it on the floor, and it runs and sound sweet!
I tried to contact Peppertree Automotive, but the number in no longer in service. Anyone know Peppertree Roger Smith?
Some interesting details. Porsche 12 generator.
8 dowel Porsche flywheel machined and drilled for 200mm clutch, and fitted wth 12v ring gear.
Modified 40hp intake manifold with 30pic carb, too. But here's the kicker--as close as I can measure with a screwdriver and tape measure the stroke is around 75mm (maybe more), and the cylinders are something non magnetic. Also has a cool crank pulley with "OT, 8Z, MZ" timing marks.
It would be interesting to know the age and history of this engine. |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10999
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Craigslist find--hotrod 36 |
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Is the gland nut a standard VW one or a brass bushing? Not that it guarantees anything, but it might indicate a Porsche 356 crank.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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Rome
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 9641
Location: Pearl River, NY
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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Great find, and that it's running as well! Peppertree advertised in Dune Buggies & HotVWs from the late 60's thru at least the mid to late 70's. I remember from photos that they were an active sponsor on a few buggies in the big Mexican races like the Baja 500 and the 1000. Had their shop logo in big letters on the buggies.
Do you have a buggy for installing this interesting engine? |
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avus
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 268
Location: Drain, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Craigslist find--hotrod 36 |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| Is the gland nut a standard VW one or a brass bushing? Not that it guarantees anything, but it might indicate a Porsche 356 crank. |
The gland nut has a needle bearing, but it is an unusual (for VW) 2 piece design with a flange pressed in to hold the grease seal.
The Porsche cranks I've looked at have had an index mark in the bottom of the gland nut hole, for installing the flywheel. When I get time to reseal this and check cam timing, I'll check it. I'm really curious about the aluminum barrels, too. Some fun! |
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avus
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 268
Location: Drain, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Rome wrote: |
Great find, and that it's running as well! Peppertree advertised in Dune Buggies & HotVWs from the late 60's thru at least the mid to late 70's. I remember from photos that they were an active sponsor on a few buggies in the big Mexican races like the Baja 500 and the 1000. Had their shop logo in big letters on the buggies.
I also found reference to Roger Smith related to early Manx buggy construction.
Do you have a buggy for installing this interesting engine? |
If it comes close to my expectations, I may run this engine in the 36hp Challenge at World of Speed this year. |
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vwsonmybrain
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2007
Posts: 702
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Is that the one that was listed in the Eugene area last month? |
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avus
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 268
Location: Drain, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| vwsonmybrain wrote: |
| Is that the one that was listed in the Eugene area last month? |
Yep. |
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vwsonmybrain
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2007
Posts: 702
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Doh! Dragged my feet and talked myself out of it until it was too late. Pretty cool find. |
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36hplandspeedracer
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Ivins, Utah
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: Craigslist find - hotrod 36 |
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| avus wrote: |
Found this engine on Craigslist. It came out of a nice old glass buggy. I ran it on the floor, and it runs and sound sweet!
I tried to contact Peppertree Automotive, but the number in no longer in service. Anyone know Peppertree Roger Smith?
Some interesting details. Porsche 12 generator.
8 dowel Porsche flywheel machined and drilled for 200mm clutch, and fitted wth 12v ring gear.
Modified 40hp intake manifold with 30pic carb, too. But here's the kicker--as close as I can measure with a screwdriver and tape measure the stroke is around 75mm (maybe more), and the cylinders are something non magnetic. Also has a cool crank pulley with "OT, 8Z, MZ" timing marks.
It would be interesting to know the age and history of this engine. |
Jerry, Peppertree was one of the "original" buggy builders in the early, early 60's and Roger was the guru. I remember seeing his "buggy dealership" located along a major Orange County boulevard in Costa Mesa around 1965 or so with his famous buggy, Rivets, parked along the curb. I have not heard of Roger in decades but two of his buggies, the original "Rivets" and a second rivets style buggy featuring Peppertree logos were on display at the recent Bug In. Perhaps he is still around. Below are pics of the two buggies:
The original Rivets! And isn't that a Oregon license plate? This car may be closer to you than you know! Is it possible this engine is the original "Rivets" motor and someone did not realize it's importance? ? ?Photo by Burly Burlile
The second "rivets" type car. Photo by Burly Burlile
The pulley looks to be an original Okrasa "OT"style so you have a winner. There is a Vintage Speed forum dedicated to this pulley! This engine might be more valuable "as it sets" due to it's Peppertree heritage. I wonder if this engine belongs in the "original Rivets" (excluding the late model exhaust!). But it would be fun to see how fast it goes!
I think a little more internet digging will bring more info on Roger and Peppertree.
Burly |
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TomSimon
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Joined: January 13, 2004
Posts: 751
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| sounds like quite the CL score, Jerry. Congratulations! |
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avus
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 268
Location: Drain, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Tom Simon wrote: |
| sounds like quite the CL score, Jerry. Congratulations! |
Yes, I'm excited to find out more. However, all I was looking for were parts for my challenge car. Instead I get an historical artifact and some grave responsibility to preserve instead of cannibalize! Oh, the weight of the world! I can't shake it...  |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10999
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| avus wrote: |
| Tom Simon wrote: |
| sounds like quite the CL score, Jerry. Congratulations! |
Yes, I'm excited to find out more. However, all I was looking for were parts for my challenge car. Instead I get an historical artifact and some grave responsibility to preserve instead of cannibalize! Oh, the weight of the world! I can't shake it... |
Very cool find, would be very cool if it is the engine that belongs in that buggy.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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36hplandspeedracer
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Ivins, Utah
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Research this morning indicated that Rivets had a stroked and bored early T2 1500cc big block using Corvair cylinders by 1967. Could this neat Peppertree high performance 36er engine be it's predecessor?
Go sleuthing Jerry!
Burly |
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avus
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 268
Location: Drain, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 36hplandspeedracer wrote: |
Research this morning indicated that Rivets had a stroked and bored early T2 1500cc big block using Corvair cylinders by 1967. Could this neat Peppertree high performance 36er engine be it's predecessor?
Go sleuthing Jerry!
Burly |
Burly, the link you sent: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=137980. The photo, by the Oregon plate, is relatively recent, and I'm almost sure it shows this engine.
Note the chrome valve covers, (possible) large generator nut, and particularly the exhaust and manifold heat plumbing.
This engine must have been installed after the volks/vair version.
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gatorwyatt
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2002
Posts: 1867
Location: Clearwater Fl.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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What's the serial number on the block? Just curious...
_________________
www.blastserv.com
wanted:
RHD Barndoor floor mat..reproduction is fine |
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avus
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 268
Location: Drain, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| gatorwyatt wrote: |
| What's the serial number on the block? Just curious... |
2680289 looks like dec 1958 to me. |
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leeezard7
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2011
Posts: 262
Location: oklahoma
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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very cool find  |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10999
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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So who owns the buggy? Wonder if they are interested in the engine?
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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avus
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 268
Location: Drain, Oregon
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 10999
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like maybe the uncle sold off the engine? Why would anyone separate it knowing the history?
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1956 Ghia
1959 SO-23 Westfalia
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now |
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