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Subaru EJ22 in the Flatback Bug...
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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:42 am    Post subject: Subaru EJ22 in the Flatback Bug... Reply with quote

***EDIT***
After finishing the wiring harness of the Subaru EJ22 engine, I changed my mind and decided to put the Scooby engine in a newly purchased 1973 SuperBeetle with a Domus Flatback kit on it, as opposed to the 1974 1303STCC I'd already restored. So, if you're looking for pics or info on the Redneck Flatback Bug, you'll find that at the middle of pg6. Other than that, I've left the rest of the thread alone, minus this one pic I took after towing her home. Oh, I've also asked the mods to move the thread from "Engines" to "Reader's Rides" since this will now be a full blown build thread:
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***EDIT***






Subaru EJ22 in the 1303STCC...

Howdy all!!

Just after getting my aircooled engine dialed in and running tits, I got a lead on an old Subaru being sold on the cheap... I've since bought it and am now on my way to the DarkSide Twisted Evil Now I understand that a watercooled conversion isn't for everyone, and that TheSamba might not be the best place for this conversion thread in terms of advice and support, but I honestly like it here. I check in daily, and without these forums I wouldn't have been able to finish the car. That said, I'd like to give back the only way I can: by offering up a conversion thread for other people who might be interested in doing something similar.

To start, I'm gonna post up a couple pix showing the highlights of my "restoration" since some of it is pertinent to the conversion. So... without further adieu:



...



Here's the car as I bought her:

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It's obviously not much to look at, and-- since I was more enthusiasm than knowledge-- I got hosed! Two years later, she is now my only car and daily driver Very Happy . To get it to this point required a full pair of equally shoddy donor cars, lots of welding, parts, puddies and pieces from a couple other cars and a slew of crappy aftermarket parts. Here's what she looks like today:


...



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She's a factory sunroof car now, has 4 wheel disks, three-pop headlight buckets, a topline front suspension, and a subtle stripe down the side

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The bug's also been fully re-wired with a Watson Streetworks harness. Heated, leather Recaro's from a BMW M3 were crammed in the cab. I fab'd up a custom steel dash and popped in a bunch of VDO gauges.

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Installed a Rancho Pro Street transaxle, and bolted up a brand new full flow'd, leaky 1915 with dual Kaddies, berg Breather box and a TIG'd fan from Racin'Jason. She pulls 108 horses@5500rpm and 116lbs of torque at 3500. All this is made easy to get at with a removable rear apron

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and just for giggles, here's the shed I put up last summer, and the garden I tend to right behind that... with the bug parked back there getting a waxin', this is my little slice 0'heaven!


...


And here's the Subaru donor Very Happy

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As far as I know, it's a '93 Legacy. I don't have paperwork on it yet (it's coming). I do know that she's powered by an EJ22 with 169,xxx on the odometer. She starts, runs and drives pretty well-- despite being a rusted out POS with a crusty exhaust. The check engine light isn't on, though she is leaking oil from the fill tube (Joel says this is normal and I'm not too worried, I'll go thru the entire thing in due time)

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(this is where the oil fill tube connects:)
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Stay tuned as I'm sure I'll make all sorts of mistakes, break a bunch of stuff I shouldn't and Enjoi every second of it!!
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Last edited by Nepenthe88 on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:39 am; edited 3 times in total
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74Superveedub
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blasphemy!

That being said, I can't wait to see some progress! Bug is looking good Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's WHY I'm doing the conversion:

#1-- I've sunk a LOT of $$$ into that old aircooled engine mainly because I tried to stay away from as many cheap chinese parts as I could. I wanted an engine that I wouldn't have to worry about (too much) for +/- 100,000k. Having a Subaru means I can get good quality OEM parts conveniently, and at a fraction of the cost. In fact, I'm pretty sure I can do the entire conversion for +/-$2500 which is $1000 LESS than I spent on just the aircooled LONGBLOCK!! (I'll make sure to keep track of everything I spend)

#2-- STUFF happens! I recently burned out the original alternator / external regulator and wasn't happy with the wobbly stock fan that was nutted up to it. I wound up replacing the unit with a beautiful TIG welded fan BUT... waiting for the part to come from Cali meant I was relegated to pedal power for 3weeks!!! Though my schedule is flexible in the summers, I have places I NEED to be in the winter, and can't be without a car for any more than a day or two

#3-- Because I hacked the original rusty bug up and cobbed it back together how I felt was best, the bug's (obviously) far from stock! It's also an "undesirable" SuperBeetle so I don't have any qualms about chopping the car up a bit more.... despite the fact that everything that needs cut will be hidden under the front decklid.

#4-- also, because the car's my daily driver, I'm sure I'll appreciate the additional HP, fuel economy, and modern conveniences like... HEAT and A/C Very Happy

So like I said, this type of conversion isn't for everyone. But, the specifics of my situation and THIS particular vehicle lend itself well to a watercooled swap. Here's lookin' to the future...
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Last edited by Nepenthe88 on Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

74Superveedub wrote:
Blasphemy!

That being said, I can't wait to see some progress! Bug is looking good Cool


Haha! Thanks 74Superveedub. To be honest the progress is gonna be slow. Cash is a little tight at the moment so it's not like I can go on a shopping spree and buy all the flashy fancy goodies up front! That and like I've said this bug's all I got to get me around (minus the pedal bike), so I need to be able to do as much of the conversion as I can with the aircooled engine in place. Some things (like the VSS sensor) will be easy to bolt up on a still aircooled bug. Other things (like plumbing the coolant lines back) could lead to mis-alignment and require a do-over. We'll see how it goes. My Goal though is to #1) give a good HOW-TO tutorial on the swap. #2) Keep track of the cost of things to give people a reasonable idea as to the TRUE cost of a conversion. #3) show how it can be done as a multi-stage process, over time, with the aircooled engine in-situ (to minimize down time and maximize fun ROAD TRIP time Very Happy )
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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

../___\..
(o\_!_/o) KAFER BAR TO DO LIST:

Before I can even consider bolting up the EJ22, I need to shore up the back of the bug to deal with the additional weight / HP of the conversion. This is gonna require some sort of Kafer Bar. I think I've settled on Mendeola's "STIFFY". However.... the bar won't fit with the stock heater boxes so I have a laundry list of stuff to do to prepare for a "STIFFY" install, most of which involves deleting the stock heat system, replacing it with seat heaters and fixing the defrosters. I probably won't document any of this since it's not engine stuff, but if I'm gonna do this conversion with the aircooled engine in place I'm gonna have to have a plan: Of course there are other Kafer bars out there which wouldn't require a stock heater system delete should YOU choose to do so, but... what if I bolt a turbo on someday??? Best be prepared and err on the side of overkill!! Twisted Evil

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--remove rear window tint and clean off all adhesive (prep for defrost grid repairs)

--Repair defrost grid & test for full conductivity (this needs to be done before the snow starts flying!)

--Tint windows (done to protect the fragile rear defrost grid) research NYS tint law and then disregard!!

--hook up Seat heaters to replace the stock heat set-up (need to buy and install the switch, relays & wire for the seats from a '96 E36 M3)(Bavarianautoparts.com?? OR local pick and pull???)

--Buy and install Stainless J-Tubes (heat exchangers will not work with Mendeola's "Stiffy" and anything other than GOOD stainless will rot away in my area) replace exhaust gaskets on driver's side (shows s/s of a small leak)

--Replace the stock doghouse with the '74 thing doghouse (If I'm not running heat exchangers, no point in losing valuable cooling air!)... must clean it up first and make sure flaps are functional!!

--Fabricate and install a cap to cover the plasti-fiber heater pieces (they can't be removed without crushing them to oblivion OR unbolting the body from the chassis-- ask me how I know...) allow space for Subaru engine harness pass thru??

--Remove the "heater Y's" out from under the rear seat (again, not running stock heat means I should probably remove all unnecessary crap in the car AND as an additional benefit this will give me more room to fiddle with electrical stuff since the Watson Streetworks fuse box is mounted under the rear seat on the driver's side / install Subaru electronics)

--Pull motor

--cut spark plug access holes and fill with the oval plate that covered the Subaru's fuel pump (attach remote oil filter to removable bits)

--replace rear transaxle mount with earlier style

--Buy and install Mendeola's "STIFFY" Kafer Cup Rear Brace $300 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1148596
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JasonBaker
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Say hello to real heat and A/C.

I am so jealous right now. Hurry and up get it done so we can see too.
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shovelheadsixsix
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We talked at Bugfest I have the type4 bug .Subaru will be my next motor in bug for the cost of the type4 I could of done the suby swap.The type4 is great but would be happy with more that the subaru gives you.
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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Sorry for all the posts, just trying to catch up to real-time)

TAILLIGHT DELETE

One of the largest, most daunting jobs involved in the conversion is dealing with the wiring harness. Many people send them out to be cut and tested, or just buy them ready to go. I've seen prices for this service range anywhere from $250--> $1000!!! Unfortunately for me, I've got less brains than money, so I'll be doing this myself Confused

First off, here's an excellent HOW-TO tutorial: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=136053

While I find the above to be an excellent source of information, I'm leery of cutting thru the loom at various places and then splicing things together again (humpty dumpty anyone?), so I'm doing the electrical part a little different. What I plan to do is delete all the unnecessary wires from the Sub loom one by one. My goal is to eventually have the Subaru stripped down so the only remaining electrical STUFF is the stuff required for it to run and move. This way will take longer than the slice and dice method but will allow me to ensure I have a fully functional harness at the end of this stage. THEN i can install it in the bug and cut things to length.

That said, the first stuff to get rid of is the loom powering the rear lights. Here's a diagram I made showing how the stock loom is run thru the car. Obviously YOUR Sub might be different, but the general principles should still remain the same:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The loom starts at the front passenger side footwell. There are quick disconnect connections here. All the wires I removed were clipped from the loom side of this connector.

The loom branches at the passenger B-Pillar to power the auto seatbelts and the power locks / windows of the rear door. No cutting required here, just undo the quick clips.

The main part of the loom continues into the trunk on the passenger side and powers the speakers and rear lights. Again, no cutting necessary just disconnect the quick clips.

The secondary part of the loom branches off and runs across the hump in the rear footwell. Eventually this will branch off to power the auto belts and rear door stuff on the driver's side AND goes back thru the trunk where there's a green junction box. plugs from this continue to the 3rd brake light and tail lights in the trunk. I unscrewed the box, unclipped all the clips and fed everything to the back seat.

All these wires will be deleted with the exception of the 5 wires that power the fuel pump / sending unit. The fuel pump is an in-tank unit (so I'm gonna have to buy an external one eventually) located under an oval plate just behind the rear seats in the trunk. Wires run under the chassis and then pop thru under the passenger rear seat (see pic below) where there's a quick clip. THE WIRE COLOR DOES NOT MATCH FROM ONE SIDE OF THE QUICK CLIP TO THE OTHER so don't accidentally cut it out (I'll post wire colors in a couple days).

Obviously the fuel pump needs to be wired up for the car to run so these wires must be liberated from the main loom. At this stage, unbundling the loom is easy. there's not much electrical tape at all Very Happy . Find these wires, trace them back to the main quick clip in the front passenger footwell and pull them to one side. Everything else can be cut out at this point since you know it goes to rear lights and won't need them! The only exception is the small loom that goes to the shifter, and the "unknown rigamarole" section.

THIS is what you will end up with:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

(this is the passenger rear seat area) All the wires rolled up at the top of the pic are things I've cut out. The attached quick clip at the bottom is the fuel pump / sending unit wires (notice the different colored wires on each side of the quick clip). NOTE: THE BLACK WIRES MUST GO TO GROUND FOR THE PUMP TO WORK

Total time, 3hrs. Cost $0. The car still runs and drives and I've scavenged enough copper to wire 1/2 a bus. I might scrap it when all's said and done to help defray the cost of the conversion Very Happy
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Subaru EJ22 in the Flatback Bug

All about FOAM in fatchicks


Last edited by Nepenthe88 on Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SRS AIRBAG delete

at around this point you should start thinking about maintaining the unbroken state of your nose. I'm not sure what mistake I'd have to make to make to get the bloody things to deploy, but I'm not all that keen to find out. So. Out they come Very Happy . I've also been told that people buy shit like this (WHY? um, cause people like things that go BOOM!!!) So, I'm saving them with the intention of putting them on CL, again to help defray the cost of the donor Sub.

Regardless, here's a pic of how the SRS stuff is run thru the car:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

First thing's first UNDO THE NEGATIVE TERMINAL ON THE BATTERY. I take no responsibility if you get bopped on the nose!!!

Second, you'll need to remove the floor consol to uncover the Airbag control unit. Then find a 6sided star bit with a hole in the middle to remove the unit (carefully please). There's 4 of these bolts holding it down.

Remove some carpeting to find the yellow SRS loom, trace the LARGE loom to just behind the hood opening lever and disconnect the quick clip (this should go to the steering wheel airbag and POWER so once unclipped you should be safe Very Happy (I haven't pulled the dash yet so I don't know how to remove the airbag itself. be patient.... Very Happy )

Third, you'll want to open the hood and remove the bolts holding both fenders on. Remove the fenders and expose the MAIN LOOM (driver's side is coming off anyway so that's no biggie. Passenger side doesn't HAVE to come off... but I'm saving all the hardware I remove so I had no problem unbolting the passenger fender too). Once gone it'll look like this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Notice the BIG black loom. That's the car's MAIN loom. the little yellow one is the airbag line we're removing. Also note that my car was so rusty that I didn't have to undo the bottom front fender bolts... all ya gotta do is TUG, haha! Also notice the diagonal brace below the A-pillar. Remove that so you have room to work. it will also come off eventually.

The SRS sensor is in that front corner somewhere. I found that It was easiest to access them from below, which requires removal of a plastic skid plate. Once the SRS sensor is unbolted you will be required to unclip the loom from the CONTROL module in the cabin and pull these from the outside of the car (the sensor is too large to be pulled thru the body)

And there you have it. total time 1hr, cost $0
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@JasonBaker-- Don't be jealous, there's PLENTY of Subaru's for you!!

@shovelheadsixsix-- Yeah I remember! Nice meeting you!! Great bug you got there BTW!!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HEADLIGHT DELETE

See the above pic for reference. The headlight loom branches off the main loom on the driver's side of the car. It then drops down and runs the width of the car under the structural bumper. The only thing we want to save from this loom is the wires which go to the radiator fan, these are labeled in green:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Make your life easier by first unplugging and removing all the front lamps (I saved the H4 bulbs as spares, but then again, I don't have stock sealed headlights), the turn signals and the horn. Some of this could make for good CL stuff, as always... to help defray the cost of the donor car!

Pulling this headlight loom is relatively easy. Unwrapping it to get to the fan wires inside....NOT so easy!! Their musta been a clearance sale on electrical tape in the beginning of 1993 cause the thing's positively slathered! Regardless, do your best, get MESSY! Eventually you'll get to where it joins with the MAIN loom. You're gonna have to unwrap this coppery christmas present too Confused

Once done, you'll find that some of the headlight wires go to the fusebox in the engine compartment, others go to the dash (for the switch on the column, etc). I popped the fuse panel off (remember the negative terminal is still off the battery, right?) got to the guts of it and deleted these wires, connector and all (push a flatblade screwdriver in to release them).

The wires that go to the dash / steering column are gonna require removal of the dash, but since I know for sure what they are and that they're not necessary I wrapped them in blue tape and labeled them "HEADLIGHTS, DELETE ME" for later. Here's what things look like at this point. I'm trying to keep everything tidy! I also checked to make sure the car still runs and drives (it does), and for giggles I did some doughnuts out in the back field as celebration for a full day's hard work Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Total time 3hrs (mostly unwrapping the loom) cost, $0
...


I also removed the washer fluid bottle (with integrated pump) and the squirt nozzles. For those who DON"T already have electric squirters, this would make a really nice (and easy to install) unit. I may eventually replace the stock bottle (and external washer pump I installed last year) with this unit, depending on how much space is stolen by the radiator housing. Depends on how things lay out.
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Subaru EJ22 in the Flatback Bug

All about FOAM in fatchicks


Last edited by Nepenthe88 on Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very very nice! The wiring is the only 'scary' thing for me, and I shall join you!

But if not in body, in spirit right now. Thanks for posting up!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a link to guy named Joel from australia he was helpful in the early stages of my attemp to stick a ej25 in a 914

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=77027

Lots of good info here there was a thread back in January that has allot of good info as well.

My 25 comes from a 96 legacy went with 95 or newer so I have obd2

Raby is blazing a trail in this direction as well and while he is not doing much in the way of kits ( for a good reason I agree ) there is a newsletter and his forums as well.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toddgsanford wrote:
Here is a link to guy named Joel from australia he was helpful in the early stages of my attemp to stick a ej25 in a 914

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=77027

Lots of good info here there was a thread back in January that has allot of good info as well.

My 25 comes from a 96 legacy went with 95 or newer so I have obd2

Raby is blazing a trail in this direction as well and while he is not doing much in the way of kits ( for a good reason I agree ) there is a newsletter and his forums as well.


Haha! yeah, I know Joel. And as soon as i set foot on Aussie soil I'm gonna rent a backwards mobile and road trip to NSW (northSouthWest... how's that work?? Very Happy) to visit his farm. He's a great guy and has already been an enormous help!

I'm also aware of the stuff Raby's doing, but to be honest... I think a lot of it is pointless. As I mentioned above, part of the reason I want this conversion is so I can have easy access to cheap, high quality OEM parts. Raby's designing a beast of an engine for sure, but his EJ28 is gonna be full of expensive, custom, limited edition parts and should anything go wrong (and it will, because it's a complicated machine and shit happens) then my bug would be on blocks while I wait for parts to be mailed to me from halfway across the continent, the EXACT thing I'm looking to avoid.

I'm also a little disillusioned with Raby because he's maddeningly obfuscatory with any information.... He can't show us this because his lawyers are working on a patent... He can't show us that because he hasn't driven ten thousand miles thru death valley to test it yet... That and he said he's NOT going to sell parts (not even a beautiful stainless exhaust that bolts right up?) because he doesn't want to deal with the numbskulls who buy them. I understand he needs to put food on the table but... it just seems a little too pretentious for me, especially when you can flip the channel and find others who are willing to put information and ideas out there that are proven, that work and wind up being a blast to drive!!

I guess the difference is this: Raby's striving for perfection. I'm looking to make a shit ton of mistakes, blow up a couple tranny's and have others learn from my trial and error stupidity Very Happy

Though at the same time I DO, contradictorily, respect Raby and the product he's making ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dawerks wrote:
Very very nice! The wiring is the only 'scary' thing for me, and I shall join you!

But if not in body, in spirit right now. Thanks for posting up!


Great to have you along for the ride!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NSW=New South Wales
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm also aware of the stuff Raby's doing, but to be honest... I think a lot of it is pointless.

You don't know what we are doing, so its pretty difficult to have an opinion that based on anything more than assumption.

Quote:
As I mentioned above, part of the reason I want this conversion is so I can have easy access to cheap, high quality OEM parts.

All we care about are QUALITY parts. Between OEM Subaru parts and USA made components to optimize the engine for the VW application quality is the goal.

Quote:
Raby's designing a beast of an engine for sure, but his EJ28 is gonna be full of expensive, custom, limited edition parts and should anything go wrong (and it will, because it's a complicated machine and shit happens) then my bug would be on blocks while I wait for parts to be mailed to me from halfway across the continent, the EXACT thing I'm looking to avoid.

Yet again thats baseless assumption because none of the info has been released and statements like these you are making is the primary reason why they haven't been released.

The components that we use for engines are standardized for the very reason that you state. This is so we can supply a replacement component, without a sample required to anyone at any time, anywhere in the world. We have done it with the ACVW engines, modern Porsche engines and the same holds true with the Suby. While these components are not typical, they really aren't full custom unless its a prototype engine, which we never sell. Each engine is serialized, that serial number unlocks the entire engine blueprint with an extensive component list of our own part numbers. Thats the difference between an engine program and a bunch of hacked together "build as you go" bolt together, fiascos.

Quote:
I'm also a little disillusioned with Raby because he's maddeningly obfuscatory with any information.... He can't show us this because his lawyers are working on a patent...

How about I won't show it to you because I don't want to? Thats pretty much the case at the present. I have honestly not even had time to post the pics to the website or even finish the website because everything is secondary to the development and application.

Quote:
He can't show us that because he hasn't driven ten thousand miles thru death valley to test it yet...

Yes, because I have learned lessons from my ACVW and Porsche programs that were valuable. Often times things look different in a final version than they did earlier and honestly I am avoiding the question of "Jake, why did you change that?". See, if you don't see it until it is complete then that question and the answer that wastes my time to write, never occurs. My battle experiences here online have taught me to walk softly, carry a big stick and say as little as possible.

Quote:
That and he said he's NOT going to sell parts (not even a beautiful stainless exhaust that bolts right up?) because he doesn't want to deal with the numbskulls who buy them.

Baseless opinion again. I said I did not WANT to sell these as parts and kits and that I was exploring avenues that would supply the parts without any interface with us and the end user. That said, I have sold two complete turnkey engines (one JR25 Touring Special and a JR26 Touring Special +) this week for Buses and these include ALL of our components to include the exhaust, cooling system, Suby tranny conversion pieces, engine and transaxle mounts and etc. These are complete turnkey solutions complete with optimized engine combinations and thats where I have focused the efforts.

Quote:
I understand he needs to put food on the table but... it just seems a little too pretentious for me,

Its not about putting food on my table. I could cut off the sales of all VW associated components, never touch a Suby engine and my bottom line would not look any different. These engines and vehicles are where we got our start and I have many employees who know them inside and out and they have families to feed. We are developing the Suby solutions so these people who have been with me from the beginning have a place to retire and work to carry them to their retirement. The only thing that drives VW solutions here is heart and pride- if it was money driven I would have given up 5 years ago.

No, not pretentious- Its really selfish. I have learned that not being selfish these days and over protective is the quickest way to be taken advantage of and stolen from. I have been copied too many times and decided long ago that it was time to look out for #1. Anyone reading this who have developed a business from scratch shares this characteristic with me.

I have also learned that the easiest way to become miserable is to try to please everyone. Last year when my baby girl was born I streamlined the offerings so all the headaches were eliminated as much as possible and now I have fun again.

Quote:
especially when you can flip the channel and find others who are willing to put information and ideas out there that are proven, that work and wind up being a blast to drive!!

If its so easy to flip the channel then why are you being so pissy about the fact that what I am doing doesn't met your requirements? You won't flip the channel and find any of the things that we are doing with these engines. You obviously already know this because you alluded to it in the first paragraph that you wrote.


Quote:
I guess the difference is this: Raby's striving for perfection. I'm looking to make a shit ton of mistakes, blow up a couple tranny's and have others learn from my trial and error stupidity

That sums it all up. I make all the mistakes and do all the learning for the guy who appreciates what we create and knows that if he can't afford to do it right the first time, he damn sure can't afford to do it all over again.

The funny thing about these threads where people get pissy about us not caring to share everything with the world are always started by those who would never buy any of it anyway. That said, why do I care what their baseless opinions are? I don't.

None of those who placed orders with us this week for these turnkey solutions had a problem with my plan of application for the program. The funny thing is that all of them told me that they have no idea why people act the way they do. Further, they didn't blame me for handling this in the exact manner that I have.

In closing I'll say that no one outside my facility knows what we are doing other than the buyers that have made the commitment. I do not know what I will end up doing sales wise, right now the focus is development of the program- sales and distribution are always secondary to application and performance. Everyone doing a Suby conversion will benefit from what we are doing. Just because we aren't making open ended promises and projecting unicorns and rainbows over your heads doesn't mean that the VW industry won't be positively impacted.

I want to supply the entire solution and have it ready to bolt in, complete with templates, instructions and known results. Nothing else matters.
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell"
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FRNKNSTNGHIA
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burn hehe.... Jake no need to be offended. When I read what he wrote about you and what your doing, I wasn't like, Screw Raby, everything on your website is badass. One thing I can say is, I need a parttime job to be able to afford more than half the stuff on your website, but is it proven, will it e reliable, and will it out perform more than most, YES.
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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FRNKNSTNGHIA wrote:
Jake no need to be offended


Haha, exactly! First let me say that it's a pleasure and an honor to have you come post on my humble little Samba thread. Second, I think you mis-understood what I was trying to convey and confused my satirical irreverence with distain and thought I was being pissy... which I wasn't... I was actually just trying to make 2 points:

1--I live in the VW hinterlands. It takes weeks to get quality aircooled parts shipped (usually from cali). I can't afford to have the bug off the road for weeks. Putting a Subaru in the bug means I can take a short bikeride to the dealer to get high quality parts to fix the bloody thing instead of waiting and being without a car. This convenience is priceless!! Now, if I were to buy a Subi from Raby, I would once again be in the hinterland and need to wait for parts to be shipped. Then, to make things WORSE I would then need to install the part myself without the requisite knowledge of having put the engine together in the first place... you know... since the EJ28 is a close your eyes, bolt it up and drive (Don't THINK) application. (that's more satirical irreverence, NOT me piling on Jake Raby so don't get pissy!! Very Happy )

2--
Jake Raby wrote:
I make all the mistakes and do all the learning for the guy
That sentence kinda drives home my statement about you being obfuscatory. People WANT to see the mistakes and the painful lessons learned so that THEY don't make them!!! In fact, that's the goal of this thread: to educate people who might want to do a swap and have them learn from my mistakes and the mistakes of others that I've found. Here's a perfect example of what I'm talking about and how I learned from one of Joel's well documented lessons:

Yesterday I went to the pick-n-pull (I love it there!!) and sourced the following parts:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

on the left is the stock seat heater switches from a late model Subaru Outback. I'll use these to power my BMW seat heaters (irrelevant to the conversion). In the middle is an early model Subaru Legacy fuel pump access place (located just behind the passenger rear seat in the trunk). I'm going to use this (and its twin from MY donor Sub) to cut spark plug access holes from the rear fenders to engine compartment (this is mostly cause I'm still aircooled and the dual kaddies make spark plug access a PITA, though it might be helpful for the Sub engine also, I dunno)

...

On the right is the oil filler tube from a late model EJ25. I wanted it because it is a decent stock (Subaru) solution to an EJ22-in-a-Bug swap. For more information, please see pg20 of Joel's thread:
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=77027&page=20. Basically, the oil filler neck on the EJ22 is too tall to fit under the bug's decklid. Joel's original solution was to cut an inch out of the tube and clamp it back together. Not beautiful, but functional. here's a pic I stole from him to illustrate:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

What he later discovered was that there's a difference between the filler neck of the EJ22 and the EJ25. Below you can see a side by side comparison. the one with the dogleg in it is from the EJ25:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

In order to save myself some aggravation and head scratching later, I sourced a part that will be a decent solution (be forewarned, the A/C discharge lines will be in the way should you want A/C...) So, when I spoke about flipping the channel to find helpful information, THIS is what I meant. Joel's got a reliable 180hp bug that's got A/C and is (reportedly Very Happy ) a blast to drive. Cool! I'd like something similar even if it is a: ""build as you go" bolt together, fiasco". Haha! Had you bothered to read the rest of this thread you would have known that MY ENTIRE BUG IS A BUILD AS YOU GO, BOLT TOGETHER FIASCO Laughing Laughing Laughing

My aircooled 1915 is +/-100hp and it's plenty... it's just not practical for ME in terms of long term servicing and ancillary goodies (heat / A/C). Honestly, I don't need a custom built $18,000 engine swap that pushes 300hp, regardless of how "purposefully built for the VW" it is. I need reliable transportation that I KNOW HOW TO FIX using "locally" sourced parts. Therefore, i see what you're doing as "pointless" (for ME) while simultaneously seeing how a Raby conversion could be perfect for someone else.

I hope that clarifies things. but get one thing REAL CLEAR... this is NOT a Bash Raby thread! It is also NOT an argue with Raby thread! This is a HOW TO DO AN EJ22 SWAP (complete with a bunch of horrible mistakes) THREAD. If you would like to check in periodically and offer some helpful advice to people reading this thread (hint hint, they're potential customers and you already have the answer to all the problems I'm gonna encounter!!!) and offer your solution to some of these issues, I welcome you with open arms... I'll even help you out to start, though please chime in if (when) i get the facts wrong, since I'm only kinda sure this is your plan:

Jake Raby has ANOTHER solution to the oil filler fitment issue. As far as I know, he's using the same shiny filler neck he used on his Ma$$ive Type 4 engine. Apparently it bolts right up!! And to make things even better, it MIGHT be proportioned in such a way as to solve FUTURE A/C discharge line issues... Food for thought my humble readers. Food for thought!
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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh! And in my effort to be completely transparent with the Time and $$ it costs to do this conversion, I need to say that I spent 1.5hrs in the pick-n-pull (but I was lollygagging and spent some time looking at a rusted out Ghia with rear pop-out windows)... I also spent a whopping $20 on all three parts pictured above (switches, plate and filler neck). Since only part of it is for the conversion lets say

total time, 1hr. Cost $10. Added to the cost of the Donor Sub ($250) I currently stand at 8 total hours and $260 invested.
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Subaru EJ22 in the Flatback Bug

All about FOAM in fatchicks
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