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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AIRBAG DELETE update:

finally got around to removing the actual airbag. It's held on by the same 4 star bolts (the odd ones) as the control module. Hopefully I can sell the whole sheebang for a couple bucks Very Happy :

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Last edited by Nepenthe88 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HEATER CORE DELETE

I stopped yesterday cause the heater core was in the way of accessing the rest of the harness. My only real goal for the day was to remove this. Wound up being so easy I kept going and actually got a LOT done. Regardless, the heater core is held on by a couple easily accessible screws, but can't be removed until the coolant lines that run thru the firewall are un-attached.

Unlike most, I chose not to drain the coolant, since I want to be able to run the car to test the harness. Instead, I clamped both lines in the engine bay, disconnected them from the heater core and re-attached them (in a bypass loop) with a 5" piece of copper pipe. I lost an ounce of coolant at most (no biggie) but I did hear the tubes suck some air. I know this can be an issue but I'm not gonna worry about it too much, since I won't be driving the car and will (probably) only have it running for a minute or two at most. Here's a pic of the bypass loop:

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and the now exposed harness in between the heater core and firewall. I'll wind up deleting 75% of the wires you see by the end of the day

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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I have access to the wires that pass thru the firewall, I decided now would be a good time to pluck the secondary engine harness. Here's a diagram of this harness:

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Most of the things labeled in the pic are things we're gonna save. There is however a slew of stuff that we can delete from this harness. there's some grounds on the shock towers that connect airbags and gauges that can go. there's a sensor on the brake master cyl. Some A/C electrical. Wipers and some lines coming from the tranny. NOTE, it's real important to label everything appropriately. I used this site to identify the connectors (and therefore the sensors attached), all of which can be unclipped.

http://californiavan.com/subaru/enginewires/

here's a re-arranged pic of all them connectors:

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Once everything's labeled and disconnected pull the sub-harness thru the firewall, split the loom and start peeling away at the electrical tape. here's what she looks like in real life:

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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the sub harness unwrapped, it's time to start deleting wires. USUALLY this step is done on a table or something after the harness has been removed. Personally, I found that sitting in the captain's chair with all four doors open deleting wires one by one to be pretty relaxing... and comfortable!

All I can say about this step is that I really enjoyed it. Wire by wire the harness got smaller and smaller. I can't explain WHAT to delete. By this point you'll just KNOW. You'll say to yourself, "Oh, all these wires once went to the rear lights. I cut them off at the quick clip in the passenger footwell but couldn't go any farther because the wires were hidden behind the fan / A/C / Heater core. Now I can continue tracing them back." You'll find that everything goes to one of a couple places. Power goes to the fuse-box. Lots of stuff tends to go to the gauge plugs or the switches (mostly lights). All the wires that once controlled windows / locks, etc goes to a zinc colored "computer control" module (I don't know what it is exactly but i've cut 1/2 the wires out of it so far so it's probably not too important and will most likely be completely deleted before long). Others go to the "BIG Male Connector / BIG female connector", which is obviously just a big junction. Just keep cutting. It'll make sense and you'll make progress, I promise.

NOTE: At this point I've cut 5-6 wires from the ECU as well (mostly on the "C" connector). These should give you pause, and you should look them up real quick. A GREAT resource can be found in this succinct tutorial:

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=136053

scroll down about 3/4 of the way, you'll find a hand drawn / numbered set of connectors as well as a description of what each wire in the ECU does. MOST of the wires I cut from the ECU have been labeled in this thread as, "EMPTY". But I also liberated an orange wire (C-13 Test mode, to green test mode plug) and noticed that C-15 (Blue/yellow - select monitor - not needed) and C-16 (Black/blue - tachometer - to tachometer) were reversed. I labeled these to make sense of them later. I'm not sure if it was his mistake or if my car's special.

Here's a pic of most everything removed: Note that all the wires on the passenger side of the hump are the engine sub harness from the previous post (and ONE large wire going to the fuel pump). Mentally push those thru the firewall and... there's really not much left!!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


i guess I'm 75% done right now. All I need to do is trace and delete the wires from the "BIG FEMALE CONNECTOR" thru the A-pillar and to the main fuse box in the engine compartment, some clean-up and I'm done!!

ALL IN ALL, THIS HASN'T BEEN HARD AT ALL!! and if this is the "scariest" and "most difficult" part of the conversion, the rest should be a breeze!!
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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything I posted today took about 4.5hours. That means I'm at a running total of 19.5hrs and $260.

...

NOTE: I didn't try starting the car at the end of the day today. I have quite a few cut wires coming from the fusebox and felt it was a little too dangerous. I won't turn her over again until the harness is fully trimmed down
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great job! Wiring seems the hardest for me as well. Is there someone who sells a wiring kit ready to go? Or are they too expensive?

Another dumb question/observation. Why does the harness have to be 'cut' down? Can you just pull it all off and throw it all in a box? Just cutting up the most obvious stuff? Smile

I like your idea of keeping the car running. I did the same to my autocrosser, I wanted to delete all the wiring. BUT, I was running the car and I cut a wire that wouldn't let it restart. It was the MAF wire which was craftily hidden inside another group of wires. Is there any tricky parts of the Subaru wiring harness?

Good job again! If wiring were easy, I would pounce on this swap!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good! On the oil filler tube, I turned my ej20 turbo's oil filler 180 degrees and it clears the side of the engine compartment.
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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dawerks wrote:
Is there someone who sells a wiring kit ready to go? Or are they too expensive?


Of course! Here's a guy that's only charging $600-$650:
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f14/t94785-iwire-wiring-services.html

Tom Shiels at SubaruVanagon.com can do a harness for ya... And from the sounds of things he does GREAT work and sells a great product. I emailed him for prices and asked if he would post a ballpark figure here for everyone's info. Remember, these are all custom applications (depending on where you mount stuff) so prices will vary:
http://www.subaruvanagon.com/conversion_services_Wiring.htm

RJES has a full selection of subee conversion bits, and does wires as well. Again, it's another custom job:

http://www.rjes.com/html/harness_building.html

One thing to remember though is that YOU still need to get the harness out of the car. That means removing the dash, the heater core, A/C and fan just to get at the wires (all these guys seem to want UN-CUT looms, with the exception of Tom Shiels) and that alone has taken a significant amount of the 19.5hrs I've spent so far.

dawerks wrote:
Why does the harness have to be 'cut' down? Can you just pull it all off and throw it all in a box?


Um... Someone said that the finished conversion harness is small enough to fit in a shoebox. So far I've removed probably 2 shoeboxes worth of copper from light-related wires, another full shoebox full of gauge related wires, and probably half a shoebox from misc stuff (wipers, a/c, heat, etc). That alone is a lot of unnecessary copper and a pretty big box. Aside from that, do you really want (potentially) LIVE un-deleted wires in a box in your car? Not to mention the added difficulty in tracing wires should there be a problem...
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Last edited by Nepenthe88 on Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Surfbeetle-- Nice! I stumbled onto your build a little while ago and have been silently following. Sorry to hear about the wife's car... Also, I notice you're using the Scirocco Radiator. That seems to be one of the best options out there for USA conversions. However... I did get a PM last night with this little tid-bit of info:

Quote:
Other thing, for your rad, you could really consider a rad from a Toyota MR2 spyder. The more I check them, the more I think they are made to fit in a bug. The rad is pretty short and the openings for the pipes are low. Check on the koyorad website, you'll get an image with the dimensions


Ok! let's take a look...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Wow, nice! It's 1/2" shorter than the Scirocco and 1" narrower (unless you get the same one Surfbeetle bought which @21.5" seems to be a LESS common and therefore MORE expensive and harder to find version)... Honestly, I think I might go with the MR2 Spyder rad if only cause it's from a late model car (2000-2005) and cause I found a couple cheap ones at around $100 AND cause different manufacturers aren't making different sized rads, so IF I find a deal, I can be assured it'll come in the size I want. Also of note... the MR2 A/C condenser is well sized for the application coming in at 23"x11.6" and similarly cheap at $110

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQToyota...0334P.html


...



What I'd really like to see is someone put an old '78 Lotus Esprit rad in a bug. coming in at a whopping 7" tall, you might not have to cut anything!! And the funny thing is the guy that's making them is about a 25 minute drive to the south of me!! Unfortunately he wants $650 for them Crying or Very sad
https://wizardcooling.com/category/252-1976-1978.aspx

It's perfect! Originally made to cool a V8, I'm sure it's plenty good enough to deal with a subee... Even the air scoop looks nice:

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Nepenthe88
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Earlier, I was asked about the heater core. That question got me thinking about what I'll eventually do. So last night I found a couple spare minutes and I started looking at the stock Subee setup I'd tore out of the car. If you go back and look at previous pix, this three unit set-up is HUGE. Fortunately, a lot of the bulk is a black plastic labyrinth with trap doors and actuators used to shunt air to anywhere and everywhere conceivable, so a lot of that can be unscrewed and removed. Interestingly enough, THIS is what you end up with

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Apart from removing plastic bits, the only other "modification" I made to the system was to rotate the inlet / outlet pipes for the heater core so that they shoot out the way you see them (I did have to heat and bend the longer one about 1/4", as the short pipe interfered a little). I'm currently thinking of mounting this on the rear package shelf behind the rear seat with the pipes poking thru the firewall into the engine bay. If my measurements are correct, it won't even interfere with the stock rear seat (not that I have it installed anyway)! All one would have to do is fab a housing and some tubes to connect them to the heater-channels. Then... Voila! heat and A/c using (mostly) stock Subaru climate control parts and VW distribution stuff!! Hell you could even get a vertical three speed fan from something and save even more space...

This set-up seems to solve any problems with mounting the heater core FARTHER from the engine. Discussion of that and other possible solutions here:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=138829

Oddly enough, Joel pops up in that discussion as well, he's bloody EVERYWHERE! Very Happy Very Happy There's also a pic of his further reduced heater core there as well in case I choose not to do A/c.


Of course I'm just thinking out loud so feedback is very much appreciated!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right about the radiator, I would have used a MR2 if I had stumbled on that sooner, as it is now, I have to modify one of the inlets since it is point too high. I hope to get more progress on mine at the end of July, with the kids out for summer, I have alot going on right now so the bug takes a back seat. Sigh.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nepenthe88 wrote:

Oddly enough, Joel pops up in that discussion as well, he's bloody EVERYWHERE! Very Happy Very Happy There's also a pic of his further reduced heater core there as well in case I choose not to do A/c.


Just keeping my finger on the pulse Wink

Nepenthe88 wrote:

dawerks wrote:
Why does the harness have to be 'cut' down? Can you just pull it all off and throw it all in a box?


Um... Someone said that the finished conversion harness is small enough to fit in a shoebox. So far I've removed probably 2 shoeboxes worth of copper from light-related wires, another full shoebox full of gauge related wires, and probably half a shoebox from misc stuff (wipers, a/c, heat, etc). That alone is a lot of unnecessary copper and a pretty big box. Aside from that, do you really want (potentially) LIVE un-deleted wires in a box in your car? Not to mention the added difficulty in tracing wires should there be a problem...


You would damn near be carting the weight of an extra person around Laughing
I kept all the old wiring, it's top quality stuff and I'm regularly using left over stuff for other projects, there was all the colours of the rainbow in there Wink

But yes definitely fits in a shoe box when finished, and I didn't even keep the rear loom from the donor.

BEFORE:

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AFTER:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took a little break from the wiring harness to blow up $7000 worth of fireworks and go camping for a couple days, but today I was back at it...

First, this is the reason I didn't start the car last time I worked on it... just too many loose wires and potential for damage:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And since the days are getting hot out here I decided to yank the harness out of the car so I didn't have to bake in the sun all day. Here it is all laid out after I quickly banded everything together to help organize the chaos

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


in the bottom right is the main engine / fan / alternator harness that once passed behind the driver's fender. to the left is the secondary engine harness, that once passed thru the firewall behind the heater core. Upper right is the ignition circuit and line for the fuel pump.

Today's goal was to eliminate both fuse boxes and pull out the ignition circuit so that it's not part of the harness, but so it can still be rigged up to start the car. It took a little while but this is what you end up with.... starting to look pretty close to being done!!

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I also started re-wiring things to make them more compact and efficient for their future duty in the bug. All the grounds are done. The ignition relay is done and some other random stuff as well. Once It's fully functional and tested I'll make a full fledged color wiring diagram for anyone interested
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and to keep an ongoing tally, I put 6 hours into everything today. That puts me at a grand total of 25.5hrs and $260.

The next step is going to be fabricating a mounting board for the ECU, relays, etc. I also need to buy a pair of fuse holders to finish wiring up the relays. Then... I'll put her in the car and find out where this stuff's gonna fit best.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spent EXACTLY $19 on the wiring harness today (when does that ever happen?!). I bought a 6 circuit fuse box to safely power the engine relays (and have enough excess capacity to bring power to a heater fan relay and A/C) as well as some blue female connectors and 1/4" blue ring connectors (for new chassis grounds and to power the block) since I was running low.

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Running total is 25.5hrs and $279... getting expensive Shocked Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

installed the Subee's cupholder in the SuperBug... the transformation has begun.... OR HAS IT?

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A while back A guy pulled into my driveway and asked if I wanted to take a ride and see a bug he had in his garage (This is where the "Free VW's and Candy" joke came from). Regardless, he had what looked like a '73 Super with a Domus flat bed kit on it. Despite being covered in boxes and crap, the PO looked like he'd done a stellar job. I offered him a jar of pennies for it and never heard back... well... While I was at the hardware store getting stuff to bolt the cupholders on, that same guy pulls up next to me. Says he's willing to take my offer. Very Happy

Now this Domus bug's been sitting for a LONG time (it's got a killer 80's paint job), but it's complete and runs on a stock Dual port 1600. I'm thinking that if I cash in my pennies.... well, lets just say it'd make the perfect host for the Subee!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm GUESSING that I can scavenge the stock gas tank out of the subaru and mount it longitudinally under the flat bed. That means I can use the stock fuel tank, fuel sending unit and that fume reclamation tank thing... That also means I could pull the stock VW gas tank out completely and gain more storage space under the hood AND get a spare aircooled engine in the process Very Happy

I'm just thinking out loud, but it would make one HELL of a winter "beater" car....
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Last edited by Nepenthe88 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUCCESS!!! ...i think Very Happy

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That's more or less the final product. I still need to test it of course, and then weatherproof it all with tape and split loom. There's also a couple of connections that have yet to be made: There's a VSS speed sensor ground to ECU that needs hooked up (obviously I haven't built the spinning wheel of death yet). I also have a loose Tach signal from ECU wire and a loose parking wire that MIGHT need to be grounded depending on how things go. Other than that, it should just be a matter of re-hooking all the quick clips to the correct spot on the engine, clipping up the fuel pump HOT wire, battery (+) and (-) and the "Ignition Switch "ON"" line.

One thing I deleted that I MIGHT regret is the "SELECT MONITOR" I'm not entirely sure what that does, but... I do have the connector with enough wire to splice to on that and the ECU should I decide I want to add it in

I also mounted the "Check Engine Light" on the panel. It might make its way to the dash eventually. I guess it depends on WHERE the board gets mounted. Here's a close up of it (yes, that IS a 7-Up bottle top on there)

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I spent another $13 on the (-) bus bar, the check engine light and the single in line fuse holder. I gotta add another 5hrs to the tally, but the majority of that was trying to figure out where (and how) to place things on the board and soldering connections. I certainly wasn't working hard. That brings my running total to.... 30.5hrs & $292.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone have a scaled drawing of the VSS sensor wheel of death that I can print out and use as a template??
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brain headquarters is looking good.

The select connector is what the dealership plugs there diagnosis computer in to, probably not that useful, I've never used mine.
I do have the pin out diagram for it somewhere to hook it up to the laptop.


I'll have to look through my files but I'm pretty sure I would still have the PDF of the wheel of death.

I got it from the SubaruVanagon group but I'm not a member on there anymore, the constant emails drove me nuts.
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