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greggearhead Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2004 Posts: 563 Location: Colorado Springs, CO
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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Bump for an old thread, as this is my problem as well.
I noticed it wouldn't start when parked on a slight incline, lower on the drivers side, so the pickup was higher. Over 1/2 tank. Put in 4 gal of gas, started right up.
When driving, it would buck and hesitate if I was nose-down at a stop sign/light for any length of time, or if I took a moderate length right hand turn (think off ramp, etc). Even with 3/4 tank and a 65mph 180 degree off ramp, it started missing and bucking afterwards for a bit.
I was able to help it 'limp' around the problem and not need a tow by sloshing the fuel with the brake pedal at a few lights and some mild steering left-right movements when on the wrong angle. I'm sure people thought I was just a crazy Vanagon driver, but it got me home without a tow when it was happening, maybe it will help someone else with the same problem.
I *did* stick some flexible/soft copper 3/16" tubing through the tank nipple and angled towards the bottom center of the tank. Clamped the outlet hose with an additional clamp down on the copper tubing a bit - will see if it helps at all or not before the new tank arrives. Grr. _________________ 1972 Porsche 911E
1973 VW 412
1984 VW Doka
1991 Vanagon Syncro Westy
Period Lights, VW & Porsche wheels and Recaro/Scheel Seats for sale
https://www.facebook.com/greggearhead
http://greggearhead.com/soco-swap---september-vw-swap-meet.html |
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davideric9 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1002 Location: Oakland CA
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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Had the same issues, removed my tank and cut it open to verify problem. This is what I found, plastic tube had separated from the outlet nipple (although not as badly as shown)
More detail and pic here _________________ 1987 Syncro Westfalia, stock (bought 1994)
1986 Syncro Westfalia SVX, 3 knob (bought 2008)
1987 Westfalia (bought 2010)
1988 Wolfsburg GL (bought 2012) |
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Racerrojo Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2006 Posts: 827 Location: ALBUQUERQUE 87120
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Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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A year and a half later and a different van, I'm having the same problems that "Flat in the back" was having. I m sure is inside the tank.
The van will run fine and then acts like is out of fuel. I pulled the line out from the tank to the FP and I barely get some drips (I have over half a tank of fuel in there)
I to dread the tank replacement, even after doing a couple of them.
Hey "flat in the Back" Any updates on your ordeal? _________________ Tight is tight... too tight is expensive!!!!
Too many vans and mostly all projects |
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Flat in the back Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 50 Location: smell A
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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***UPDATE ON MY UPDATED UPDATE**** so after a huge disappointment of still being the same way after a new temp2 sensor, someone had reminded me about the bad hall sensor in the distributor. i swapped out the distributor with my white 88, and sure enough the white 88 started to buck and stall when it warms up. then the 89 bluestar just kept idling fine for over an hour. drop it around the block and so far so good. i'm gonna just drive it around town for the rest of the day to day and see.. _________________ 2005 Saab 92x Aero: Flat in the front (for sale)
1970 Porsche 914-6: Flat in the middle
1958 Volkswagen Panel Bus: Flat in the back
1989 Volkswagen Vanagon Bluestar: Flat in the back |
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Flat in the back Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 50 Location: smell A
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Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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ok, the van started right up first thing in the morning. idle and rev smooth. i let it idle and walked away to see what would happen, came back 15 minutes later and it was shut off and won't start again like yesterday after my test drive. i looked for the multi buzzing sound from the fuel pump and didn't seem to happen this time. i let it cool down and went back to try it again about 30 min. after, it fired right up for a second, then shut right off and same repeated a few times. i've been searching on the forum and looks like this now might be the coolant temperature sensor. so i'm gathering now that this has been a combination of fuel pump, fuel regulator and coolant temp sensor issue..? (seems like when it rain it pours with the vanagons..) i don't even know what this sensor looks like or where's located at. called the auto part they said if it's the right one, then it's 20 bucks. i'm going to follow the testing procedure (looks like you have to test it from the ecu connection?) to confirm it. heck, i might just go pick up this part before they close and have it anyway.
does anyone have any input on this..? please help, thank you. _________________ 2005 Saab 92x Aero: Flat in the front (for sale)
1970 Porsche 914-6: Flat in the middle
1958 Volkswagen Panel Bus: Flat in the back
1989 Volkswagen Vanagon Bluestar: Flat in the back |
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Flat in the back Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 50 Location: smell A
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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MidwestDrifter wrote: |
Make sure you put the new FPR in properly. Input and output hoses in the right places?
Check your fuel pressure again, it can't hurt right?
Check your return line for blockage. Maybe a piece of the old FPRs diaphragm is stuck in the return? (should be able to blow through relatively easily)
Did you reconnect the vacuum line to the FPR?
Check over all the wires and hoses you disturbed. Its highly possible whatever you touched is causing this. |
FPR was installed correctly. it's a good used one out of the perfect running 88 GL, and i didn't see any drips out of it. i also tested the pressure both w and wo vacuum and they all looked good.
but get this~ i was frustrated and disappointed, so i took an hour nap and went out to try it again. it fired right up and rev smoothly, so i took it out for a test drive. it drove ok, didn't seem to have any noticeable hesitations, and i took all uphill streets to put some load on it. as i got to the top of the hill i felt a big jerk from the engine, then i let go the gas and didn't stall. as i started to get going again, the engine started to hesitate violently. luckly i was able to just coast back down hill.. i tried to pop the clutch and restart the engine but it didn't really work. all i wanted to do at that time was to get back home, cuz i ain't gonna try to push this near 5000 lbs vehicle, and i had already used up one AAA tow so far.
back home in my driveway, i tried to start it again. it didn't even seem like as if it wanted to (like before i changed the FPR when i just gave a little gas to start it up). except i noticed after i tried to start it, while the key is still at the on position, i could hear the fuel pump buzzing. but it buzzes like crazy, almost the same pattern as that violent hesitation 5 minutes ago....
so!~ now this is a total different situation than just the fuel tank pick up, fuel pump, fuel filter or the FPR. this seems to be an electrical issue to me.. it could be the issue that started all this in the first place. maybe all i've been doing is just finding my way upstream to the root of the problem??
crap! looks like i'm back to square one!~ _________________ 2005 Saab 92x Aero: Flat in the front (for sale)
1970 Porsche 914-6: Flat in the middle
1958 Volkswagen Panel Bus: Flat in the back
1989 Volkswagen Vanagon Bluestar: Flat in the back |
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MidwestDrifter Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2012 Posts: 769 Location: Kicking Around Australia
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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Make sure you put the new FPR in properly. Input and output hoses in the right places?
Check your fuel pressure again, it can't hurt right?
Check your return line for blockage. Maybe a piece of the old FPRs diaphragm is stuck in the return? (should be able to blow through relatively easily)
Did you reconnect the vacuum line to the FPR?
Check over all the wires and hoses you disturbed. Its highly possible whatever you touched is causing this. _________________ 2004 Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter (Custom Camper)
2000 Jetta TDI
1982 Diesel Westy W/ ABA I4 hybrid (Sold)
Epic Road Tripping since 08/05/12 | http://VagariesAbound.blogspot.com/
My Current Build | http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41215 |
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Flat in the back Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 50 Location: smell A
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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i put another fuel regulator in there and kept the fuel gauge on to confirm it. it started and rev great. fuel pressure looked good w and wo vacuum. i shut off the engine to take the gauge off from the t and wanted to drive it around the block. shut the hatch, cleaned up and put my tools away, got in the car and it won't start. waited for about an hour and tried it again. it wanted to start, or did start a couple times. but now it fires right up but the rpm goes up and down like crazy between idle and about 2000, then drops and dies. kept trying thinking maybe the system just had to clear out the air gap but no luck. i'm totally bummed and disappointed.. now it seems like it's a total different problem and i really dunno what to do now.... can someone please help with some input..?? _________________ 2005 Saab 92x Aero: Flat in the front (for sale)
1970 Porsche 914-6: Flat in the middle
1958 Volkswagen Panel Bus: Flat in the back
1989 Volkswagen Vanagon Bluestar: Flat in the back |
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Flat in the back Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 50 Location: smell A
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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MidwestDrifter wrote: |
Checking your fuel pressure can't hurt either. (when you are having this issue) |
i should have done that in the first place.. you were right~ _________________ 2005 Saab 92x Aero: Flat in the front (for sale)
1970 Porsche 914-6: Flat in the middle
1958 Volkswagen Panel Bus: Flat in the back
1989 Volkswagen Vanagon Bluestar: Flat in the back |
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Flat in the back Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 50 Location: smell A
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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*** UPDATE ON MY UPDATE***
by procrastinating on getting into the fuel tank project, i figured i owed it to myself to carefully look into the fuel system after the fuel pump and filter. so i plugged a gauge at the t split and started the engine up by slightly push on the gas pedal. once the idle smoothed out, the pressure read at about 32/33 psi and almost 40psi with vacuum hose disconnected from the regulator, which seemed to be the proper pressure according to the specs i found on http://www.scribd.com/doc/56230426/VW-Digifant-Manual but the funny thing is that i noticed a few drips of fuel coming out of the vacuum tip on the pressure regulator.. as i shut off the engine to see if the pressure maintained, i saw the pressure regulator started to piss fuel out of the tip when i pulled the vacuum hose off. AHHHH HAAA!!!
i think this would also explains my suspicion on a mystery vacuum leak which caused the rough acceleration.... we will see
i'm gonna call that guy back who's parting out the vanagon and buy his to test it out! _________________ 2005 Saab 92x Aero: Flat in the front (for sale)
1970 Porsche 914-6: Flat in the middle
1958 Volkswagen Panel Bus: Flat in the back
1989 Volkswagen Vanagon Bluestar: Flat in the back |
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crazyvwvanman Samba Member
Joined: January 28, 2008 Posts: 9939 Location: Orbiting San Diego
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Not very much. But if you try to drain the tank by simply unplugging the hose from the tank outlet pipe it will stop draining before all the fuel inside is gone. Gravity is different than pumping.
Mark
randywebb wrote: |
congrats on solving that
Now, I have a related question: how much fuel remains in the tank when the fuel pump runs out of fuel? |
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Flat in the back Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 50 Location: smell A
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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damn it, spoke too soon! i did an oil change and went to the local part store to recycle the oil, then it started to have that hard starting problem again as i was leaving the parts store!! i eventually started back up but took a bit of trying by pumping the pedal slightly. sounded like fuel pressure had to get built up. pretty much back to square one on how it was when i bought the van, ugh..!! this time i have 3/4 of a tank. last time i had about 1/8 to 1/4 (above the reserve orange section)
i took the freeway home and it drove great, but as i turned onto my block, it started to cut out. as i let go the gas it would be stable again. after i parked it, i tried to start it back up after about 10 minutes of sitting, it needed a few pumps on the gas pedal to start up. but when i shut it off and start it back up right after, it would start right up without any problems.
this seems really like the fuel pressure to me. i know the used fuel pump is good cuz i heard the van fire up and drove up and down the block before i took it out. before i go back to the fuel tank again, i'm gonna take out the injectors and check on their spray patterns and clean them up a bit (not sure how.. )
i really don't want to jump into replacing that fuel tank. i was told putting those vent hoses on top is a total bitch.. man so dreadful _________________ 2005 Saab 92x Aero: Flat in the front (for sale)
1970 Porsche 914-6: Flat in the middle
1958 Volkswagen Panel Bus: Flat in the back
1989 Volkswagen Vanagon Bluestar: Flat in the back |
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randywebb Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2005 Posts: 3815 Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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congrats on solving that
Now, I have a related question: how much fuel remains in the tank when the fuel pump runs out of fuel? _________________ 1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans. |
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Flat in the back Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 50 Location: smell A
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:04 am Post subject: |
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**UPDATE*** i have filled the tank up to about 3/4 full and still didn't wanna start. i then disconnected the hose from tank to fuel pump again, but this time fuel was gushing out. just so happen there was a vanagon parting out on craigslist, so i decided to pick up a good used one $40 to make sure (instead of 2 million dollars for a new one just to test it out). and sure enough, the fuel pump was the problem!! even tho it made noise when i turned the key on.. i guess the mechanical part of the fuel pump must have failed gradually.. it's now back in running condition and i'm happy! _________________ 2005 Saab 92x Aero: Flat in the front (for sale)
1970 Porsche 914-6: Flat in the middle
1958 Volkswagen Panel Bus: Flat in the back
1989 Volkswagen Vanagon Bluestar: Flat in the back |
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Racerrojo Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2006 Posts: 827 Location: ALBUQUERQUE 87120
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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I can't really see it but, I think the plastic tube came off or broke right at the point where it meets the outlet pipe that connects to the pump/filter. So a Stainless steel, copper or plastic tubing (some thing that could not create spark is better) that you can clamp to the hose to the pump and the outlet pipe, could get you going until you get a new tank, that or don't let it go bellow 1/2.
The problem started after the van was run until empty, ironically the same day I was planning to do a reseal job, but did not discovered the issue until a couple of days latter when it ran out of fuel whit 1/4 thank showing on the needle, so I ordered the new tank and had to do the Job all over again (a lot easier the second time around) Just be gentle with the sending unit it is old and brittle, guess how I found out. A new sending unit is $50 from Go westy and not a bad idea.
This is the JCW part #REPV670101
http://www.jcwhitney.com/replacement-oe-style-stee...387y1991j1
One thing worth mentioning is that this tank is lighter thus thinner steel than the OEM _________________ Tight is tight... too tight is expensive!!!!
Too many vans and mostly all projects |
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Flat in the back Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 50 Location: smell A
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Racerrojo wrote: |
I think that, running a tube or a hose through the outlet pipe could work for the time been. BTW the after market tanks don't have the screens that OWN tanks have, they tune a metal tube from to the center lowest part of the tank |
meaning to insert a metal tubing to stiffening up the fuel pick up? (or even something like a coat hanger wire just to keep the pick up tube in shape) according to the pics from poineer1's link, it looks like just a rubber hose that used to be secured by a now broken plastic holder of some sort to keep the hose end at the bottom of the tank. i can totally imagine this now flimsy fuel pick up is just floating around inside the tank..
so.. i'd imagine the aftermarket fuel tank with the metal tube bent into the center lowest part of the tank would be most ideal right? i think i'd much rather deal with replacing fuel filters and not having the screens than having it break off again and having this same problem down the road? and who knows where i'll be on a trip at that point. _________________ 2005 Saab 92x Aero: Flat in the front (for sale)
1970 Porsche 914-6: Flat in the middle
1958 Volkswagen Panel Bus: Flat in the back
1989 Volkswagen Vanagon Bluestar: Flat in the back |
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Racerrojo Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2006 Posts: 827 Location: ALBUQUERQUE 87120
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I think that, running a tube or a hose through the outlet pipe could work for the time been. BTW the after market tanks don't have the screens that OWN tanks have, they tune a metal tube from to the center lowest part of the tank _________________ Tight is tight... too tight is expensive!!!!
Too many vans and mostly all projects |
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Racerrojo Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2006 Posts: 827 Location: ALBUQUERQUE 87120
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Flat in the back wrote: |
Racerrojo wrote: |
Yes JC Withney (using my phone to post,), the tank with shipping came out under $100. |
ah ya, i did a quick search on their website and looks like its 80 bucks. now i've never seen a fuel tank out of the vehicle, so i can't tell from the pics that they showed.. is this it? http://www.jcwhitney.com/replacement-oe-style-stee...1989g244j1 |
Hell no! That's. Not the right tank picture. For the right image check Go Westy, Van Cafe or The Bus Depot
http://m.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQVolkswag...IVW3C.html _________________ Tight is tight... too tight is expensive!!!!
Too many vans and mostly all projects
Last edited by Racerrojo on Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Flat in the back Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2006 Posts: 50 Location: smell A
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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Racerrojo wrote: |
Yes JC Withney (using my phone to post,), the tank with shipping came out under $100. |
ah ya, i did a quick search on their website and looks like its 80 bucks. now i've never seen a fuel tank out of the vehicle, so i can't tell from the pics that they showed.. is this it? http://www.jcwhitney.com/replacement-oe-style-stee...1989g244j1 _________________ 2005 Saab 92x Aero: Flat in the front (for sale)
1970 Porsche 914-6: Flat in the middle
1958 Volkswagen Panel Bus: Flat in the back
1989 Volkswagen Vanagon Bluestar: Flat in the back |
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Racerrojo Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2006 Posts: 827 Location: ALBUQUERQUE 87120
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Yes JC Withney (using my phone to post,), the tank with shipping came out under $100. _________________ Tight is tight... too tight is expensive!!!!
Too many vans and mostly all projects |
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