Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
I should of seen it coming
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76911
Location: Sneaking up behind you
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

So i'm doing a top end rebuild on a 1600 for a customer. It was burning oil and had low compression.

The case was painted silver and it was flaking off. I removed the exhaust, heater boxes, intake and tin. I removed the valve covers, rockers and then i saw it. Stamped in the head under the rockers... GEX.

So I removed the cylinders and the rings were all over the place. Oil ring with the gap at the bottom and compression rings within an inch of each other.

Oh... two of the top M8 case bolts were missing.

Otherwise the bottom end seems OK.

So 2 cans of brake parts cleaner, a wire brush, some steelwool and an air compressor and the case was clean enough and most of the flaking silver paint was off.

Not sure what to do with the heads. The shop owner wants to replace them with new. But they are Brazilian VW castings and I suggested we have the machine shop check them out and rebuild if they are OK.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
FeelthySanchez
Samba Member


Joined: February 03, 2011
Posts: 1349
Location: Now is that a real poncho, or a Sears poncho?
FeelthySanchez is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
..... two of the top M8 case bolts were missing.


Just a guess: ya found 'em inside a cylinder? Shocked
_________________
modok wrote:
I would like if you had enough clue to communicate what you are doing.
Ryan Tucker wrote:
Enough clue..Whats that mean?
OldIronSpine wrote:
I'm not sure how compression works.
Turbos don't produce torque, they produce HP. Instead of torque.
The real problem with NA engines is you don't hear the nice whine of the turbo as it spools up.
Before I commit, I'm going to do more research because I don't really know what piston rings are.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76911
Location: Sneaking up behind you
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

FeelthySanchez wrote:
Glenn wrote:
..... two of the top M8 case bolts were missing.


Just a guess: ya found 'em inside a cylinder? Shocked

That would be a trick.

One was missing the nut that hold the intake center section and the other was missing the entire stud.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
wcfvw69 Premium Member
Samba Purist


Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
wcfvw69 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

I'm not sure what's worse in the VW world? GEX engines or Cardone "rebuilt" distributors. Think
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc

Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.

**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours**
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76911
Location: Sneaking up behind you
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
I'm not sure what's worse in the VW world? GEX engines or Cardone "rebuilt" distributors. Think

Yes, Cardone is the "GEX" of distributors.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Xevin Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7624

Xevin is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:30 pm    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

Shocked Hate, when that happens.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Just sweep it all in the trash next to mine and hit reset Laughing

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Case was not usable and VW heads had some cracks as well. Heads might have been salvageable. But the thought of rebuilding on a GEX rebuild was never going to happen. Those three stamped Scarlet letters have no place on an engine I’m going to run. Hope it works out for you.
_________________
Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Very Happy

Clatter wrote:
Damn that Xevin... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
I respect Xevin and he's a turd Razz

SGKent wrote:
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
modok
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
modok is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

That's nothing.
The rods should be bent and all different lengths, big ends hones tapered, and caps put at an angle and sanded so they are of uneven width.
The crank needs to have a bunch of runout on the gear area, and the heads need to have welds over the cracks and a step machined into them. Regrund cam with no taper and regrouind lifters not rotating, and that takes out the lifter bores.

Glenn, so far you have the best gex engine I've ever heard of.
Lucky, or, you have a lot more checking to do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ALB
Samba Member


Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3483
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
ALB is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

Are the case halves matching?
_________________
On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
FreeBug
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
FreeBug is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

Not defending GEX, but as for the ring indexing, you can set them up as you want, but once the engine is running, they're spinning around beyond your control. Where they land, nobody knows...

Oh, and btw, "should HAVE", means something, "should OF" just doesn't make sense. Sorry, I used to teach English.. Laughing , and haven't had my tea yet.

Wow, what a time saver..I was thinking you didn't need ALL the case bolts, now we know the ones on top of the case are just for show.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
slalombuggy
Samba Member


Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9145
Location: Canada
slalombuggy is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

It will be interesting to see how big the line bore is worst I've seen from GEX is 4th over. Not sure where they get bearings. I would have stopped as soon as I saw the GEX stickers and dumped it in the steel bin.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
YDBD
Samba Member


Joined: February 25, 2017
Posts: 891
Location: Bavaria, Germany
YDBD is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

I must have lucked out. I bought a GEX 1835cc in 1990 for my '64 baja, ran it from Fresno to Pismo and back more than twice, got rear ended in '92, smashed the crank pulley-bent the horns-salvaged the body put the engine in my '60 buggy. Back to Pismo several times, shipped it to Okinawa Japan in '99, refreshed top end. Sold it to a friend, who kept it a few years and sold it to another who kept it until about 2013. Engine never gave out and was strong as ever.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
'56 pan Dune Buggy since '69
don't live in the past...but when I did:
'67 bug
'64 baja
'60 dune buggy
'73 Personenkraftwagen Type 182 "Thing"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Xevin Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 7624

Xevin is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

slalombuggy wrote:
It will be interesting to see how big the line bore is worst I've seen from GEX is 4th over. Not sure where they get bearings. I would have stopped as soon as I saw the GEX stickers and dumped it in the steel bin.


Ahh yes. What slalombuggy says is what we found. In addition to the oval developing.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Very Happy

Clatter wrote:
Damn that Xevin... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
I respect Xevin and he's a turd Razz

SGKent wrote:
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
FreeBug
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
FreeBug is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:34 am    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

I know we all like to crap on GEX, but I was also thinking about how many VW's were saved and kept on being used because cheap, reliable engines were available.

By reliable, I mean that subjected to stock use no more than 1 in 10 failed, probably. Think of the volumes they were building, I'm pretty sure the majority of those things actually worked.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 12714
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

FreeBug wrote:
Not defending GEX, but as for the ring indexing, you can set them up as you want, but once the engine is running, they're spinning around beyond your control. Where they land, nobody knows...


If this is true then every mechanic I've known, every automotive instructor, every book in print including factory service manuals are all wrong.


Just sayin'...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
YDBD
Samba Member


Joined: February 25, 2017
Posts: 891
Location: Bavaria, Germany
YDBD is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
FreeBug wrote:
Not defending GEX, but as for the ring indexing, you can set them up as you want, but once the engine is running, they're spinning around beyond your control. Where they land, nobody knows...


If this is true then every mechanic I've known, every automotive instructor, every book in print including factory service manuals are all wrong.


Just sayin'...


Yup, I believe they are set that way in "hopes" during break in there they will stay. But they don't, not saying they all will move, but highly likely the rings will not remain in those positions.
_________________
'56 pan Dune Buggy since '69
don't live in the past...but when I did:
'67 bug
'64 baja
'60 dune buggy
'73 Personenkraftwagen Type 182 "Thing"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76911
Location: Sneaking up behind you
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

modok wrote:
Glenn, so far you have the best gex engine I've ever heard of.
Lucky, or, you have a lot more checking to do.

The endplay is good and the rods "feel" right. The customer can't afford a complete tear down and what might be found. It ran good before so we'll do the top end and send him down the road.

BTW, the case halves do match and its a T3 case converted to T1.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Bugsy61
Samba Member


Joined: March 20, 2011
Posts: 256
Location: Peoria, Illinois
Bugsy61 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

If I may ask a stupid question, how do you tell if the case halves match or not?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76911
Location: Sneaking up behind you
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

Bugsy61 wrote:
If I may ask a stupid question, how do you tell if the case halves match or not?

They are stamped on the top of the bell housing with a number.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009

#BlueSquare
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
FreeBug
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
FreeBug is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

oprn wrote:
FreeBug wrote:
Not defending GEX, but as for the ring indexing, you can set them up as you want, but once the engine is running, they're spinning around beyond your control. Where they land, nobody knows...


If this is true then every mechanic I've known, every automotive instructor, every book in print including factory service manuals are all wrong.


Just sayin'...


Sorry, dude, they spin around 4-5 rpm, I've been told, and the rpm is affected by the cross-hatch angle of the cylinders, load and rpm of the engine.

Here, first result under "piston ring rotation":

https://www.highpowermedia.com/blog/3954/rotation-of-piston-rings

With those amounts of kinetic energy going around, how could they NOT turn?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
FreeBug
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
FreeBug is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: I should of seen it coming Reply with quote

Bugsy61 wrote:
If I may ask a stupid question, how do you tell if the case halves match or not?


Sometimes it's just visually apparent, one side is 40 years old, with the appropriate levels of oxydation, and the other is shiny, for instance..or maybe one side has the holes for the support bar, the other not, etc..

Case halve which have lived and grown old together look alike.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2023, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.