Difficult to Solve Reduction Box Leak

thefladge

I've had reduction boxes on my Baja Bug for about 20 years now. Originally I had them mounted upright, but I switched to a laydown configuration about 10 years ago.

The passenger side has had a problem with leaking pretty much the entire time. I've replaced the seals several times and replaced the spacers once and I have never been able to completely solve the problem.

Someone suggested that the bearing may need to be replaced. They said to check the stub axle to see if it wobbled around when I grab it...it does not.

I purchased NOS bearings for both sides and new spacers, but I'm not really sure if that will solve the problem.

As you can see by the pictures, everything has been coated with gear oil inside the brakes and more gear oil has leaked down the back of the backing plate. The moment I removed the axle nut to take off the drum, I could see oil under the nut.

BTW, the bearing cap has been rotated 90 degrees so the drain hole is still at the bottom. A hole was also added to the backing plate to line up with the bearing cap drain hole.

If anyone has any other ideas as to why this keeps leaking, I would be glad to listen.

Thanks.

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_________________
1957 Vintage Baja Bug.
2110cc engine, 40 IDF Webers on Gene Berg manifolds, Engle 110 cam, Bugpack 40×35.5 Street Pro Heads, W8CC plugs, 12.5 pound Flywheel, Kennedy 1700 pound pressure plate.

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject:

This will not likely be very helpful, but it is the best I can suggest.

Check to make sure the bearing cap is the correct cap, should start will a 211 part number.

The leak appears to be coming from the axle seal/spacer area, not the bearing cap to backing plate area. The outside spacer, inner diameter should have a chamfer facing inward with a O-ring seal squished between the inner bearing race and the spacer. This O-ring seal should seat (Inner Diameter) on a straight part of the axle stub and not over a splined area for the oil to pass under the seal in the splines.

Most common leak I have observed has been from a poor seal on the spacer and the oil passes through the ID of the spacer.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

thefladge · Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:36 am Post subject:

It has the correct bearing cap and the O-ring was in place.
_________________
1957 Vintage Baja Bug.
2110cc engine, 40 IDF Webers on Gene Berg manifolds, Engle 110 cam, Bugpack 40×35.5 Street Pro Heads, W8CC plugs, 12.5 pound Flywheel, Kennedy 1700 pound pressure plate.

c.davis419 · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject:

I had a 65 Westy 20 years ago with the same problem. After resealing the box multiple times, changing end caps and bearings I finally changed the stub axle itself and that cured it. I never could see any damage or reason the axle was causing the leak but it worked... Confused

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1967 beetle
1974 Thing

thefladge · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject:

thefladge · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject:

UPDATE

Well, another leak has developed on the passenger side reduction box. A leak that seems to be at least as bad as the old leak it had before all the work I put into fixing it.

Right now my frustration level is through the roof!

At this point I don't know if there was any value in adding the vents to the reduction boxes, but I doubt if that could have caused the new leak.

Nothing is dripping down the back of the backing plates. It just seems to drip off the bottom of the brake drum. Gear oil is getting all over the inside of the rim and I'm sure another set of break shoes have been ruined.

I do not know what I need to do to solve this leak once and for all!

I replaced all the bearing with NOS German ones, I cleaned every part to perfection and replaced all the seals and I installed new spacers.

I'm getting ready to throw in the towel with this problem.
_________________
1957 Vintage Baja Bug.
2110cc engine, 40 IDF Webers on Gene Berg manifolds, Engle 110 cam, Bugpack 40×35.5 Street Pro Heads, W8CC plugs, 12.5 pound Flywheel, Kennedy 1700 pound pressure plate.

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject:

Something, and I do not know what, is a-miss.

I ran RGB's on a '59 SCab with a 2165 cc dual carb engine pushing it and acheived some horendous wheel hopping action to the point my gates would fall down. I rebuilt the RGB's before the large engine went in and never had a leak to this day.

Carefully take it apart and investigate every surface for a tail tale sign of the leak source. I have fixed a lot of leaking things on vehicles over the years, and there is always a source. Something is not correct. These just do not leak for something to do.

after taking the drum off, study closely the cap/seal area. Even wash it off with brake clean and study it to see where it re-appears from. Look at sealing surfaces with a straight edge for a warpped case or cap.

I always use a sealant on everything when putting together. No-setting sealant like Permatex Aviation sealant. I use it on all the transaxles I rebuild and none leak. I even use it on the axle O-ring seal.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

thefladge · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject:

I refuse to let this beat me. As soon as my white-hot rage dissipates, I will pull off a drum and start looking at what is going on in there.

Nothing annoys me more than an oil leak, especially when I put so much time and money into fixing it with no results.

_________________
1957 Vintage Baja Bug.
2110cc engine, 40 IDF Webers on Gene Berg manifolds, Engle 110 cam, Bugpack 40×35.5 Street Pro Heads, W8CC plugs, 12.5 pound Flywheel, Kennedy 1700 pound pressure plate.

joescoolcustoms · Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:44 pm Post subject:

One more idea.

Clean the inside surface really good. Drive it a short distance and pull the drum off again. Maybe the leak will just be starting again and be traceable.

Best of luck.

The other pet peeve, for me, after the leaks, is a rattle. No leaks and no rattles make me think my ride is in better shape than it might be.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

thefladge · Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject:

I'm hoping I will have some time this weekend to pull off the drum and investigate the problem.

I suspect the oil is seeping past the rubber o-ring and spacer on the reduction gear stub axle. No oil is dripping down the back of the backing plate where the leak drain hole is located. It is leaking inside the brake area and dripping off the drum.
_________________
1957 Vintage Baja Bug.
2110cc engine, 40 IDF Webers on Gene Berg manifolds, Engle 110 cam, Bugpack 40×35.5 Street Pro Heads, W8CC plugs, 12.5 pound Flywheel, Kennedy 1700 pound pressure plate.

WilliamA · Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject:

Definitely sounds like the o-ring to me as well. Check well for micro-scratches. It doesn't take much. I always use emory cloth and oil to clean up the seal area on SA cars.... Of course the GRBs are an Exxon Valdez just looking for a reef.....
Let us know what you find. Don't give up! I'll be needing your advice when I try and get mine to quit drooling! I'm starting to lay in a large supply of booze just for that day....

WilliamA
_________________
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain

“Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.”
-Theodore Roosevelt

dickcharlton · Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject:

any luck on this?
I ran into the same problem years ago without ever figuring it out. I am of no help with this but I can tell you I ruined a few set of brakes. I have since picked up a set of 68 type 1 axles and housings and am planning on swapping back.

thefladge · Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:16 pm Post subject:

thefladge · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:03 pm Post subject:

Update: Last month I went through everything again to try to solve the gear oil leak. I was forced to do some repairs when a wheel cylinder failed.

This time I used some German made Elring oil seals I bought from a Porsche supplier on Ebay.

I cleaned and repainted all the parts, straightened some slight irregularities in the backing plates and used Permatex Aviation sealant on everything. I made sure everything was laboratory clean during assembly.

When finished, I filled each reduction box with 8.5 ounces of gear oil.

A month later and no leaks. I'm am hoping it stays this way.
_________________
1957 Vintage Baja Bug.
2110cc engine, 40 IDF Webers on Gene Berg manifolds, Engle 110 cam, Bugpack 40×35.5 Street Pro Heads, W8CC plugs, 12.5 pound Flywheel, Kennedy 1700 pound pressure plate.

Vanapplebomb · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:17 pm Post subject:

Winner!
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

WilliamA · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:59 pm Post subject:

Awesome! This discovery may change the world!

Like keeping pigeons out of the back porch, perseverance is mostly vigilance mixed with boredom!

WilliamA
_________________
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain

“Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.”
-Theodore Roosevelt

wyattsdad · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:20 am Post subject:

was this all done with synthetic gear oil?

thefladge · Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:32 pm Post subject:


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