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jkallhoff Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2012 Posts: 76 Location: parma heights ohio
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: 73 power loss under load |
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i posted this on the vortex, as i have been a member there for a while, but then i found aircooled. totally a new frontier for me and i need your help.
its kind of an odd problem, well, its got me stumped and i dont know where to start. i was going down the highway and it was down hill and i had what felt like i was running out of gas. you know the jerky jitters of sporadic fuel delivered to the cylinders. well pulled off to the side of the road still had gas in the fuel lines(they are clear) though that maybe the time was out a bit (still playing with that cause its a 009 with a 34/3 carb on a 1600 cc motor) but it wasnt. in fact every time i would start it it sounded the most healthy its ever sounded since i have owned the car, but when i would let out the clutch it would immediately choke it self out. even with the idle high and the clutch release slow and easy its not like a 009 flat spot, it just dies.
thanks for your help, and i will share any more info thats necessary to solve my problem
motor was rebuilt 20k
009 distr
34 pict/3 carb new
new points distro cap wires and plugs
and valves have been checked and set
things i have done was set points gapped plugs reset the time and cleaned out the carb. wondering if it could be a coil problem? i dont know. |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13843 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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It is the combination of the 009 and the 34 pict... very common problem.
locate the correct vacuum advance distributor. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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jkallhoff Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2012 Posts: 76 Location: parma heights ohio
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Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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i like the sounds of that. i ordered one last saturday, i dont like when things are half *ssed. but im worried that thats not the problem, ive had it pretty drivable the last couple of weeks and just all the sudden i can let the clutch out with out killing the thing. no matter how high i take the idle up it still just dies. |
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jkallhoff Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2012 Posts: 76 Location: parma heights ohio
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:50 am Post subject: |
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ok so i checked the fuel lines, they look good. checked the fuel pump it looked good; the plugs wires cap points carb was all clean, but i noticed that this wire on the Electromagnetic cutoff valve was attached but the female spade connector was…well 40 years old. so i replaced that as well as a new wire for the choke and back to the coil. i'm afraid to drive it at this point, but it seems to pull again up and down the drive way. does that sound like it would have killed the engine under load? like i said i am at a complete loss as to what is causing it to idle good (well for a 009 dizzy and 34 pict carb) let me rev it in neutral but then bog out when i put it in to first and try to drive off. |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Even a totally worn out engine will let you drive the car around. It is either fuel or spark. Take off the fuel line and put it into a can, hvae some one else crank the engine and see how fast it will fill the can (should be pretty fast). If you can get a fuel pressure guage and test it (should be in between 2-5 psi) Is the choke and fuel cutoff wired to the same side of the coil as the main power wire? Turn on key (don't start) disconnect and reconect the the cut off switch (should hear a click). Pull off plug wire at the dist, check for color of spark and how far you can move the wire away and still have spark (at least a 1/4 inch) try these steps then get back yo us. _________________ 69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Sort of sounds like it runs for awhile then it is picking up something in the fuel line and clogging the filter- shutting off the gas
Replace all filters -- but it could do it again
What condition is the gas tank in?
And are you sure you have not had some contaminate put in the tank? _________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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jkallhoff Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2012 Posts: 76 Location: parma heights ohio
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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to jerry:yeah it does good then it just starts sputtering out. im pretty sure the tank is pretty new. its for sure an odd problem.
multi: fuel looks like its coming out pretty good, the choke and fuel cut is wired to the 15 post on the coil. the cut off valve works still have yet to check the plugs wires but the plugs are fouling now. carbon build up….which could range from as bad as sticking valve to weak ignition. |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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check the voltage at the coil ! _________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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jkallhoff Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2012 Posts: 76 Location: parma heights ohio
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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well i think i have found the culprit. the coil is going intermittently so i got a new coil, but it still was not running right. so i went through the whole list of possibilities again and was just left scratching my head. well since i ordered a distributer and still patiently waiting for the parts to come from the west coast all the way to the east coast, i decided to rip apart the old one. what i found was kind of a face palm kinda thing, cause it has gotten to where i can not even get the car to idle. the clutch springs completely disintegrated. so now i has no idea what timing is. |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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jhicken Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2003 Posts: 9466 Location: Fallbrook, CA
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:56 am Post subject: |
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jkallhoff wrote: |
the clutch springs completely disintegrated. so now i has no idea what timing is. |
Well, that's your problem, It would run fine sitting still but as soon as you would try to bring it up to speed, it wouldn't advance properly leaving you flat. Your new distributor should help quite a bit.
Your parts should arrive soon, I get stuff from Cali all the time in less than a week. However with the wildfires in Colorado and the storms in the mid-Atlantic, you might need to wait another day or two.
-jeffrey _________________ Der Kleiner Kampfwagens |
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jkallhoff Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2012 Posts: 76 Location: parma heights ohio
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Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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well turns out thats wasnt the whole problem. it helped a great deal but just wasnt the explanation for the power under load. idles again none the less.
time to check valves and such again. |
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Cadaver Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2012 Posts: 2338
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Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:57 am Post subject: |
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not overheating..
compression good.
does that 009 (slang) mean a Bosch 0231-178-009? if not say so.
does it advance per the Bentleys, charts. (no it wont but does it advance at all)?
IF the condenser opens, spark energy drops by 75% and is obvious
to a person doing this. This is NORMAL (stock) fresh Bosch parts....
http://ac-vw-remove.com/My_Videos/spark%20test/M2U00180.html
if running MSD, it can burn OIL or TAR for fuel..
http://ac-vw-remove.com/My_Videos/spark%20test/M2U00180.html
if the valves are set right (lash )
and the spark is hot? all 5 places !
then the carb is bad.
strip it , clean it, kit it and then document the jets, all fuel and air jets
then you know what you have carb wise.
is the chock set right, is it working?
do not drive car unless the chock opens 100% hot.
is the float level correct? (2nd check on carbs after choke) 3rd is jets. |
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jkallhoff Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2012 Posts: 76 Location: parma heights ohio
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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ok so instead of posting a new thread i figure i will just keep going on this one. so i eventually got it running again, was the distributer slop that was causing it to loose the power. but now i have run into a new problem. i have tried to fuel pumps now and it still will not pump. the fuel gets to about half way through the filter and stops. ive taken the hoses off and ran them into a bottle and both from the tank and the pump it seems to do alright but when i hook them up to the carb nothing happens. ive emptied the carb out to start fresh and still the fuel will not go past the the filter. |
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Rex lucy Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2008 Posts: 497 Location: pleasant plains arkansas
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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try this. put filter under tank. i've yet to see one of those clear filters fill up when installed in engine compartment.
74 thing
75 vert
69 t3
71 t3
57 ford |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:03 am Post subject: |
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It is correct that the fuel filter should not fully fill up
If in fact the filter did this then the fuel pump is pumping too much pressure
You need to have no more than 3.5 lbs of pressure at the fuel pump -- harbor freight $25.00 _________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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JerryMCarter1 Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2007 Posts: 6199 Location: N.W. Phoenix
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: |
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does your new dist match up to your carb ?
_________________ Experience always triumphs over hearsay and You get to select which theory to believe |
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jkallhoff Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2012 Posts: 76 Location: parma heights ohio
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:07 am Post subject: |
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condensor was bad. appreciate all the help. I'm mobile again. running better then it has ever run. |
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pitterpat Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2003 Posts: 625 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Multi69s wrote: |
You may have had a condensor go bad. I just found out the hard $ way. I had pretty much the same symptoms as yours, but I knew that the fuel was good (tested). $60 later and a new coil led me to believe that I was good to go until it left me stranded. dropped in a spare dist ran like a champ. got home tested the condensor - bad . This tells us that a condensor that is failing, can act like a coil going bad. I've had 30 plus years with VWs and I NEVER have had a condensor fail. |
How do U ck the condensor? |
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jkallhoff Samba Member
Joined: June 26, 2012 Posts: 76 Location: parma heights ohio
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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did exactly what you did right down to the dollar amount. Last thing I did was reread this thread and thought, well its the only thing I havent changed so I spent the nine dollars for a new one and sure enough sputtered into an idle. Now it stats every time I turn the key. |
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