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Blowing oil around the pulley
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:08 pm    Post subject: Blowing oil around the pulley Reply with quote

What causes the oil to come out from behind the pulley? I replaced the tube between the oil filler and the air intake because I know they will blow oil if that is plugged. It is still blowing some oil out, especially after a freeway run. I'm pretty sure it is from behind the pulley because of the way it gets flung onto the inside of the engine cover. After a freeway run yesterday there was oil running down the center of the rear apron today.

The engine is a largely stock 1979 F.I Beetle engine. The EGR is removed, and the warm air intake system is removed for now, with the hole in the rear tin capped (that thermostat is stuck on hot air.) It is running the factory exhaust and intake, including air filter. The thermostat is missing but the deflectors in the fan shroud are in place and open.

The motor doesn't seem to be burning much oil at all. I am loosing about 1/2 quart every 1000 miles and with the mess it's making I'm pretty sure most of it is leakage. The only other possible clue is that the engine is getting between 18 and 18.5 mpg. I've mostly blamed that on the F.I. system and resisted the urge to lean it out until after I've had the injectors rebuilt and calibrated (winter.) My wife wants to drive the car now and it runs good, except for the mess.
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jgrexx
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

get a sand seal and pulley it will fix the problem. mine is doing that some. it just drips a small bit out every now and then. a sand seal will keep any from coming out. you can't use the stock pulley with a sand seal though. you have to get a new pulley that doesn't have a groove in it. the sand seal and pulley kit is about $60.

http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3148
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jgrexx wrote:
get a sand seal and pulley it will fix the problem.

That won't fix the cause....

Find out why you have so much internal pressure. Could be worn rings. Are the valve covers and case vented?
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jgrexx
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well there is no cause for mine to leak. it just drips every now and then??? everything is set up properly so it shouldn't leak.

he said his wasn't burning much oil so that rules out worn rings. perhaps he does have some other issue that is making it spew out. i'm not sure what that would be. i have heard of the groove in the pulley getting dirt stuck in it so it doesn't sling the oil back in like it should. you could get that checked to make sure that is not the problem.

my valve covers are stock so no venting. i have stock 1600 SP engine. only venting i know of is from the oil filler up to the carb under the air filter.

since mine is only putting out a drop to two after i drive it i figure it's not a pressure thing. if it was pressure it would be spewing out and not just a drip after i park it. ???
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Last edited by jgrexx on Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:24 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Joel
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That air filter you are running would have a bit to do with it

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


They don't get quite the same PCV suction a stock one does.
Make sure the hose isn't kinked where it goes in under the filter there, especially when it gets hot and pliable they often kink.

Also your generator is out of alignment, it will cook the bearings like that eventually.
Needs spinning 90 degrees clockwise Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just bought the car and the generator doesn't even work. i'm putting an alternator on. i do not have a stock air filter so this is all i can use. the hose is not kinked. i'm not sure what the position of the generator would have to do with the bearings. it's still spinning in a circle regardless. it shouldn't matter. how would a bearing know what position the generator is in? all it knows is round and round she goes. lol i don't think you could even spin it 90 degrees because of the two mounting holes on the backing plate. it would have to go 180 degrees.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Either:

A) Not enough vacuum at the air-cleaner or there is something restriction the air flow to the airecleaner.

B) Too much blow by in the engine that is making the crankcase fill with too much blow by gases for the aircleaner to handle.

C) Or there is a leak somewhere else that you have overlooked.

A) Note that the original oil-bath air-cleaners all had a weighted flap (or flaps) that caused a bit of vacuum in the air-cleaner itself. Sometimes this flap may get stuck open. Also sometimes there may be another connection to the aircleaner, like the one for the EVAP charcoal canister, that may not be connected or may have a leaky hose/component that is droping the air-cleaner's vacuum level.

B) Both normal and abnormal engine wear may cause the cylinder rings to wear out and leak excesive engine gases into the crankcase. This of course over-pressures the crankcase and blow air out the inlet in front of the crankshaft pulley. (PS. "Front" is torward's front of vehicle.) It also causes other problems. A poor engine build can cause this to happen very early in the engine life. I suppose a very restricted exhaust might also blow by faulty exhaust valve guides too.

C) You probably made sure where the oil is coming from but never rule out other possiblities without knowing for sure.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jgrexx wrote:
... i'm not sure what the position of the generator would have to do with the bearings. it's still spinning in a circle regardless. it shouldn't matter. how would a bearing know what position the generator is in? all it knows is round and round she goes. lol i don't think you could even spin it 90 degrees because of the two mounting holes on the backing plate. it would have to go 180 degrees.

The backing plate is what needs to rotate 90 degrees. It has a cutout that allows cooling air to pass through the generator so it doesn't overheat and die. In the current orientation, that channel is blocked.
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do a leakdown test to assess the rings.

Max
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you have the correct dip stick? the marks can vary year to year and it's possible you have too much oil in it?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q-Dog wrote:
jgrexx wrote:
... i'm not sure what the position of the generator would have to do with the bearings. it's still spinning in a circle regardless. it shouldn't matter. how would a bearing know what position the generator is in? all it knows is round and round she goes. lol i don't think you could even spin it 90 degrees because of the two mounting holes on the backing plate. it would have to go 180 degrees.

The backing plate is what needs to rotate 90 degrees. It has a cutout that allows cooling air to pass through the generator so it doesn't overheat and die. In the current orientation, that channel is blocked.


What he said.

Look at an alternator from a car other than an aircooled VW, they have cooling fan blades either on the back of the pulley like the pic below on older alternators or modern ones now have them in the housing behind the slots so dumb people don't stick their fingers in them.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

VW generators and alternators just duct air from the cooling fan through a slot in the backing plate to achieve the same thing.

take the 4 backing plate bolts out spin it 90 degrees clockwise so the terminals are at 2:00 instead of 10:00 like yours.
It's probably just not wired up right or has a crook reg.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

The earth screw on the generator should always be at the top, I doubt you could get to yours without taking the carb off.

You could have some debris in your oil slinger on the pulley causing the oil leak.

Steve
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joel wrote:
Q-Dog wrote:
jgrexx wrote:
... i'm not sure what the position of the generator would have to do with the bearings. it's still spinning in a circle regardless. it shouldn't matter. how would a bearing know what position the generator is in? all it knows is round and round she goes. lol i don't think you could even spin it 90 degrees because of the two mounting holes on the backing plate. it would have to go 180 degrees.

The backing plate is what needs to rotate 90 degrees. It has a cutout that allows cooling air to pass through the generator so it doesn't overheat and die. In the current orientation, that channel is blocked.


What he said.

Look at an alternator from a car other than an aircooled VW, they have cooling fan blades either on the back of the pulley like the pic below on older alternators or modern ones now have them in the housing behind the slots so dumb people don't stick their fingers in them.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

VW generators and alternators just duct air from the cooling fan through a slot in the backing plate to achieve the same thing.

take the 4 backing plate bolts out spin it 90 degrees clockwise so the terminals are at 2:00 instead of 10:00 like yours.
It's probably just not wired up right or has a crook reg.


OK i see what you guys are saying now. i think the PO took it off because he had an alternator to put on but he couldn't put it on because it wouldn't fit the stock generator stand. he probably just put it back in there so he could sell it. the generator doesn't work so cooling it doesn't even matter at this point. lol i have a new alternator ready to go in. i know the hole in the backing plate goes down for proper cooling. don't worry i'll get it in right!!! lol
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a chance to look at it some more. The late fuel injected engines are a little different. The crankcase vent dumps into the intake between the air box and the throttle body instead of into the air filter box. The alternator stand is completely different with a different plastic filler with vent fitting.

Thanks for a quick list of things to look at Juanito84. I think the blow-by is coming out from behind the pulley. Most of the oil seems to end up as a fine coating on the inside of the engine cover. The top of the block under the intake manifold is completely dry. The oil leak seems to favor the right side some, with more oil around the dipstick than around the lower tin on the left side.

There are different dip sticks for Bug engines rlutterb? I never thought about that but I haven't yet changed the oil. It was freshly serviced when purchased and was initially over-full by about 1/8 inch on the dipstick. It is a little below the full line now.

I decided to go back to checking the crankcase vent. I replaced it with another hose, same as I removed. After putting the new on in I tested it by removing the oil filler cap with the engine idling and then stabbing the throttle. Since the line goes into the intake after the air box this allowed a massive inrush of un-metered air and the engine died. I tested it that way today (1 week after changing the hose) and the engine ran just fine. It's blocked up again, no doubt at the tight bends at the bottom.

Is anyone familiar with how this vent is supposed to be routed on the F.I. engines? The fitting on the filler comes out of the back, pointed at the intake manifold and the casting the alternator strap bolts to. The hose is partly pinched getting between these two things. It was working that way but seems to have collapsed again. It is hard to even get a good look in there. Getting the hose clamp on was done by feel as I couldn't see a thing with my fingers in there. Is there supposed to be some type of 90 degree fitting on that outlet? (and if so, what is it called?)
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

all german not MEX right?
as posted, blows to much or sucks too little
add, blocked,leaks or wrong parts.


PVC blocked, (leaking filler gasket ,can it be that simple, yes)
got this?
http://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-Beetle-Karmann-Official-Service/dp/0837616239/ref=pd_sim_b_2


gallery searches.?
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/241479.jpg


some of the other TYPE engines. have a check valve regulator
for the PCV, does your 79 have one , it it packed?
FI uses a very different system for PCV, get the book and check it out.

i have the full EFI book from Bosch but it pretends the PCV cant leak.
and can cause lean. sadly. as you say it do...
on type 4 the valve is under the filler chamber, hidden?

more...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=579542
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jgrexx
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well an update to my situation. it seems the oil leak has completely stopped now. let me give the backstory.

when i bought the car i drove it and just a small drip or two was seen on the tins under the crank pulley so i thought no big deal. we get it home and crank it up and oil starts dripping out pretty fast and constant. i notice the hose from the oil filler isn't even hooked to the carb/air filter so i figure maybe it just popped off and that was the reason for the leak. i hook it back up and nothing changes. it's still a constant dripping.

so anyways i go ahead and change the oil and tranny oil and everything and we take it to the shop to get it looked at. the guy makes sure the groove is cleaned out and such and then it kindof goes back to just a drip or two on the tins and no constant leakage. this is when i ordered the sand seal pulley kit to stop the few drops of oil coming out problem.

anyways i've been driving it every day for a mile or two down the street and back. it's been sitting awhile at the PO's house. each time i drive it the oil would drip out less and less. basically the car was fixing itself lol. i've driven it the past 3 days and it hasn't leaked a single drop onto the tins under the pulley.

i was wondering if maybe there was too much oil in there and it drips out until it's at the right level. i had it at the full line on the dipstick maybe a hair over. now it's a hair under the full line but the oil leak has completely stopped. i still don't know what was making it constantly drip oil in the beginning when i first got it home??? maybe the groove had dirt clogging it up or something i dunno. it's just weird man. the car fixed itself lol.

so now i'm like what do i do? i have a $60 sand seal pulley kit that i had ordered so i might as well use it right? or should i just leave the stock pulley in there since the leak has stopped? does the stock setup allow dust/dirt into the engine since it's not sealed up? i'm thinking i should go ahead and install the sand seal kit since i have it. what do you guys think?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
jgrexx wrote:
get a sand seal and pulley it will fix the problem.

That won't fix the cause....

Find out why you have so much internal pressure. Could be worn rings. Are the valve covers and case vented?



Glenn, I had always been under the impression that a stock 1600cc didn't need venting. Well, I've been reading many a thread on this topic and it seems that all roads lead me toward getting a breather box and vented valve covers.
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Max Welton
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A stock 1600 only needs the stock venting ... unless it has a problem with rings.

I said it before: Do a leakdown test to asses the rings.

Max
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah that's the only venting i have. going from the oil filler up to the carb/air filter. i have a stock 1600 single port.

it would be dumb to vent your engine to cover up bad rings.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just had the same problem on my 79 too. I had replaced the vent hose from oil filler up to the intake with a new aftermarket and it seems that the new hose doesn't have enough strength to it and it was kinked like a straw instead of being curved. I wish I could remember where I bought it so I could send it back to them. I stuck a piece of 3/4 inch pex tubing in it temporarily to stop it from kinking, fixed the oil from pushing out of the pulley.
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