Saga Engine Rebuild 1971 Bus

Danwvw

Well I will try this, Sounds like my thread must be too Old to be seeable but I will ask one more question in hope someone one will know the answer.
Ok so this case that I am working with to build the original engine with has some not all it's case inserts in it. They are 14mm X 2 X 10mm Inserts but the #3 top outside insert looks to have not been screwed in all the way. It's near the surface like the others. I have tried everything I know to remove it and it will not budge! Any Ideas on how to get these old 10mm Case savers out? I would like to change them for 14mm X 2 X 8mm Inserts so I can run 8mm studs.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

Danwvw

Took the case to the shop and they just put in new case savers where they were missing and not sure what he did about #3 but it is nicely threaded in deep now. Looks like I will be sticking with 10mm studs! Need to decide on cam lifters and rods next?

Cost were:
$50.00 Align Bore to .080",
$15.00 Thrust Cut to 2nd (I did not think the shop was going to do this but they did!)
$20.00 CaseSavers fix,
$15.00 Tap and Plug Oil passages for full flow,
$50.00 Surface Flywheel,
$10.00 Glass Bead Flywheel,
$18.00 Polish 74mm crank (Standard),
$50.00 Balance Crank & Flywheel Note! had to grind a lot off the crank to make it balance,
$38.00 Main Bearings S/.080"/2nd (Mahle Original),
$20.00 Rod Bearings Std. (Kolbenschmidt),
$20.00 Double Thrust Cam Bearings (SilverLine).
$300 Plus Total!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

Mr.Duncan · Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject:

now its just my opinion but .080" over on the bore is a bit much.

Personaly I would never use anything past .040" over
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Desertbusman · Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject:

ortak · Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:38 am Post subject: 68 engine

Deleted
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Mr.Duncan · Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:01 am Post subject:

Danwvw · Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject: 80 Thousandths Align Bore

skills@eurocarsplus · Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject:

the problem is the webs get weak the bigger the l/b is. i would barely be intereseted in using that case for a stock build.....for a bug

not to say that it can't be done, but you better bring your A game, and get everything balanced within a gnats ass of perfect (which should be done for any engine, imho)
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Desertbusman · Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 3:37 pm Post subject:

Danwvw · Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 5:23 pm Post subject:

I am not worried about it, It's already balanced and ready to go together. The 74mm crank I have was a used UnKnown too. It took a lot to get it balanced but my guy says it's all good.
In the process of picking a cam for it! Which cam, heads and exhaust would you run and why? Thinking it will be The Eagle Racing Cam CB2231 with a valve lift of .344" (1.1's) and .391" (1.25's) it's advertised as having 268' Degrees of dwell and has a 228' @ 50 Spec.. Plan on building the engine to look totally stock using the Original Bus engine Pict 34/3 Solex carburetor but have the option of adding 1.25 Ratio Rockers etc and Dual Dellorto 36mm Carbs. Pistons and Cylinders will either be Stock 85.8mm or the AA 88mm Thickwall slip in bottom machine in top Pistons and Cylinders.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

Danwvw · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:23 pm Post subject: Cam Clearance

Anyone know how much is safe to remove from a cam gear?
Took 65 Thousandths off the cam gear and 90 off the back of the oil pump to get the CB-2231 Cam's bolts to clear the new Schadek 26mm Oil Pump:

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

busdaddy · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject:

Hmmm.....interesting predicament......

I've seen cam gears cut a bit more that survive just fine, myself I'd explore removing some of the bolt heads as the only need for the full head is torque when installing and with a good wrench you can shave some off and still reach the required torque.
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Danwvw · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:24 pm Post subject:

Ok, Maybe I will do that, as I have another gear that is un-cut. Did the cam bolts on my last engine. Thought this was kind of cool though, used my wood router!

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

Danwvw · Last edited by Danwvw on Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

I have kind of been waiting for things to come together on this engine. The in-expensive way to go from here would be to run the old 1641cc engine heads with 25K miles on them. Below is a Photo of the #3 Chamber which has little tiny cracks around the spark plugs. #4 has them too but the #1,#2 head did not have the cracks. I am wondering if these heads are worth porting? Also I am having mixed feelings about my choice in cam's, I am concerned the CB-2231 may not be a good cam for a bus. (Worried the engine will bog with it on take off worse than the old 1641 with the stock cam and 1.25:1 ratio rockers did.)

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

busdaddy · Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject:

Danwvw · Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:05 pm Post subject:

Yeah, your probably right about a blow out. I have already been through the spark plug blow out thing with the other engine in the bus now. The shop finally got it welded where it held though. Looked pretty weird though but it's holding after the second try welding.
Here is a photo of that head. I put it on the #2!

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

Tcash · Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject:

Hi
0.060-0.080 is usually running clearance.
Loose the washers go with this stile of bolts. File the heads flush. Use red loctite.
https://chircoestore.com/cam-gear-bolts-set-of-3-f...fgodQCwAqg

Sorry about the earlier post. I had overlap stuck in my head. I know just enough about cams to get me in trouble.
Cam grinders have it down to a science. So if you give them your engine and vehicle specifications. They can determine which cam is best for your application. You want what is commonly revered to as a RV cam. Good usable torque threw the rpm range.

A little info.
http://www.phnet.fi/public/hefor1/eng/vwinfoca.htm

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/How_to_choose_a_camshaft

Good Luck
Tcash

Danwvw · Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:06 pm Post subject: CB-2231 Camshaft?

Thanks for the links "Tcash" will check them out! I had the following already written up when you posted.

Anyway the problem is now I am un-certain how to proceed.
1. Go with the W-100 which won't help MPG's, Just a well build another Full race engine.
2. Figure out the best of both worlds, Great MPG's with the Dual carbs and the CB-2231 Camshaft and perhaps some of the 39mm or 40mm intake valves while retaining the stock 32mm exhaust valves? I have heard that is how to stop the bogging. (I don't know probably would not bog with the Dual Carbs!) Bogging is probably a single carb manifold thing! Wondering about the RevMaster 049's or the L-5's probably way too much head for a 88mm bore! (I don't know might work with the low lift of the CB-2231 camshaft!) Possibly a set of one of the Steve Tims, A.J. Sims heads but which ones?
I wonder just what cam "Vino" used? In his little Type 1 Engine VW Bus Limo Project- Need Motor Advice?

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

Danwvw

Type 1 engine, (88mm bore) X (74mm stroke) Dual 36mm DRLA Carbs:

SGKent · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:37 am Post subject:

you need special bolts for the cam that have been milled to make the heads thinner. Also the oil pump idler needs to be pinned with that much metal removed.

The heads can be welded but the seats need to come out as the cracks are diving under them. Since this is a T1 engine I'd just replace the heads with new and sell those as cores. It is likely the guides are worn out too or close to it.

I can't speak on whether .080" over on the main is an acceptable practice today, but back in the 70's and 80's no quality machinist would go past .040" on a case before it was considered a throw away case. One could find .060" oversize bearings but such a case was considered worn out.
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