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Intrinsic Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011 Posts: 262 Location: Clearwater, FL
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:23 am Post subject: rubber fuel hose specs |
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I am converting my Fastback from PO installed carbs, back to FI, in part by restoring the original fuel system. In the parts catalogs I see fuel hose in several different ID's.
Could you give me a list of the rubber fuel hose ID's and the total length of each ID that I will require? Also, how many hose clamps will I require?Currently I have 5 correct FI clamps and I know that is not enough.
Should I get cloth wrapped hose, or is contemporary smooth hose equivalent?
Thanks |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:32 am Post subject: Re: rubber fuel hose specs |
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Intrinsic wrote: |
I am converting my Fastback from PO installed carbs, back to FI, in part by restoring the original fuel system. In the parts catalogs I see fuel hose in several different ID's.
Could you give me a list of the rubber fuel hose ID's and the total length of each ID that I will require? Also, how many hose clamps will I require?Currently I have 5 correct FI clamps and I know that is not enough.
Should I get cloth wrapped hose, or is contemporary smooth hose equivalent?
Thanks |
You need aproximately 20 feet of 5/16th standard fuel hose, and 34 FI clamps. I don't have the indiviual lengths, just the total amount used. I normally buy a 25 foot roll when I do it, that way I can make lazy bends and have enough for the injectors (the 2 to 3 inch pieces). _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:43 am Post subject: |
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So what brand/source of the 5/16 hose is best today?
I used to use a ribbed neoprene hose that I can no longer find anywhare. So I used the standard cloth braid wrapped hose, and it has failed after about 3-4 years (half the life of the old neoprene). So it's time to replace it all again.
What' s/where's best? |
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W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4897 Location: Southern AB
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Mark Shutt Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2012 Posts: 482 Location: Doncaster UK.
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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cloth braid is ideal for fuel hose as it absorbs any potential fuel drips then evaporates rather then drip fuel all over a hot engine, not that you should have any leaks anyway!! _________________ 1968 1600TL Auto build thread, have a look!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6007222#6007222 |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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KTPhil wrote: |
So what brand/source of the 5/16 hose is best today?
I used to use a ribbed neoprene hose that I can no longer find anywhare. So I used the standard cloth braid wrapped hose, and it has failed after about 3-4 years (half the life of the old neoprene). So it's time to replace it all again.
What' s/where's best? |
3 to 4 years? I'm seeing 1 year tops. I'm about to re-do mine. Americal everywhere you can't see, and cloth braided everywhere you can see _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Mark Shutt wrote: |
cloth braid is ideal for fuel hose as it absorbs any potential fuel drips then evaporates rather then drip fuel all over a hot engine, not that you should have any leaks anyway!! |
Problem is, it doesnt hold up with the furel we are getting in the US. It's 10% Ethenal in any big city and it just causes havoc on anything rubber. Fuel pump, rubber lines, old carb gaskets etc _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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KTPhil wrote: |
So what brand/source of the 5/16 hose is best today?
I used to use a ribbed neoprene hose that I can no longer find anywhare. So I used the standard cloth braid wrapped hose, and it has failed after about 3-4 years (half the life of the old neoprene). So it's time to replace it all again.
What' s/where's best? |
I've found Goodyear brand 30R7 to work very well, but finding it lately has been spotty. The "30R7" is an industry standard for hose, and it's various ratings. Gates and all the other American hose manufacturers have to make their hose to a certain standard. The previous standard was 30R6, but according to Supa, it's not really that good for FI applications. The 30R7 is what he's using on his own car, as am I. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22358 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Erik G wrote: |
Mark Shutt wrote: |
cloth braid is ideal for fuel hose as it absorbs any potential fuel drips then evaporates rather then drip fuel all over a hot engine, not that you should have any leaks anyway!! |
Problem is, it doesnt hold up with the furel we are getting in the US. It's 10% Ethenal in any big city and it just causes havoc on anything rubber. Fuel pump, rubber lines, old carb gaskets etc |
Yes, this is a very big problem in the USA. Ethanol seems to be the norm in all of the big cities as a way to cut down on air pollution (our state has been using it for over 20 years now). The old German cloth braided hose just doesn't seem to last with "our" fuels. They last on average from 6 months to 1 year before failing. And when used in the engine compartment, 6 months is more the norm. This is the main reason you see a lot of us recommending the American or SAE hose over the German stuff. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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W1K1 Samba Member
Joined: March 04, 2004 Posts: 4897 Location: Southern AB
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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from the gates barricade brochure:
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Today there are more than 40 different EPA-approved fuel blends used in the U.S. – formulations made from sources as diverse as soybeans, coconuts, corn, and used cooking oil. These blends all help the environment by reducing pollution and dependence on fossil fuels, but have a negative effect on automotive and small engine fuel systems. These new fuel blends aggressively degrade general-purpose fuel hose, causing it to deteriorate. |
The new barricade hose is marked Multi fuel & bio fuel compatible as well.
Using regular cloth braided fuel hose is just asking for trouble IMHO _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php
1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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Erik G wrote: |
3 to 4 years? I'm seeing 1 year tops. I'm about to re-do mine. Americal everywhere you can't see, and cloth braided everywhere you can see |
I have driven maybe 500 miles in those 3-4 years, and no freezing, so it's very mild conditions. I used to go 5 years of daily driving including heat, washboard roads, dirt, etc. |
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sharkskinman Lateral Lunatic
Joined: April 26, 2006 Posts: 4030 Location: Deep In My Own Psyche
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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i go to FLAPS and just buy regular 5/16 hose
and i havent had a problem in 4 years
you can get the kind that has blue inside that is for newer F.I.
but i have never really needed (afford) it
its EXPENSIVE!!
this is the difference in the clamps
im using the right ones
And i know i should be using the left ones
the right nes chew up the hose too much
"34" you say??
that sounds about right
depends if the hoses are still stock clamped AT the injectors
also make sure you have all the parts for the fuel system
like the little disc in the front to help even out the pulse of the pump
you can look thru this
http://classicvw.org/gallery2/v/Fuel-Injection-Manual/fuel+injection+parts+book/
Thank you Russ _________________ 74 Mexi Swamp Thing. 70 square volksrod (Swamp Rat)..65 C10
Me of Course wrote: |
Extremity is relative to how far your willing to jump |
Ward Cleaver wrote: |
You ever try a pink golf ball, Wally? Why, the wind shear alone on a pink golf ball can take the head off a 90-pound midget at over 300 yards |
PS4 "NKOGNEATO" |
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vlad01 Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 3069 Location: Australia
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Firstly you should be using EFI hose not general purpose hose like some people are say here I seen what happens when general fuel hose is used on EFI.
2ndly they don't make hose like they used to for off the self grade stuff.
I have EFI hose in my car that is 20 years old and seems better quality despite the age than the new hose I put on. I had to replace the hose as it was getting too short from trimming a few times in its life not from any deterioration of any sorts. It has the standard oem clamp not the common worm screw type clamps, so when the hose gets squished too much the standard clap runs out of clamp. so trimming is necessary
its amazing really! 20 years! I still have the hoses I removed in my glove box in case of a road side issue with the new hose.
yeah the good old days of quality |
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Intrinsic Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2011 Posts: 262 Location: Clearwater, FL
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advice everyone. Yesterday I ordered the FI hose and clamps from ISP West. |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17963 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:31 am Post subject: |
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vlad01 wrote: |
Firstly you should be using EFI hose not general purpose hose like some people are say here I seen what happens when general fuel hose is used on EFI.
2ndly they don't make hose like they used to for off the self grade stuff.
I have EFI hose in my car that is 20 years old and seems better quality despite the age than the new hose I put on. I had to replace the hose as it was getting too short from trimming a few times in its life not from any deterioration of any sorts. It has the standard oem clamp not the common worm screw type clamps, so when the hose gets squished too much the standard clap runs out of clamp. so trimming is necessary
its amazing really! 20 years! I still have the hoses I removed in my glove box in case of a road side issue with the new hose.
yeah the good old days of quality |
You wouldn't know Goodyear from Gates, Vlad! You haven't turned one wrench on your notchback yet. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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sharkskinman Lateral Lunatic
Joined: April 26, 2006 Posts: 4030 Location: Deep In My Own Psyche
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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the regular fuel hose will do you fine (manufacturer is your choice)
Our F.I. is only 30lbs +/- 2lbs
the New F.I. hose is for Way more Pressure than ours _________________ 74 Mexi Swamp Thing. 70 square volksrod (Swamp Rat)..65 C10
Me of Course wrote: |
Extremity is relative to how far your willing to jump |
Ward Cleaver wrote: |
You ever try a pink golf ball, Wally? Why, the wind shear alone on a pink golf ball can take the head off a 90-pound midget at over 300 yards |
PS4 "NKOGNEATO" |
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JSMskater Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006 Posts: 5362 Location: Murrieta California
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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You don't need the special FI hose. Our cars see a max of 30 Psi, and they have a burst rate around 120. This has been answered over the years numerous times, and not a single reported failure or leak. Vlad is probably used to modern systems which run CONSIDERABLY higher pressures.
As far as length goes, I usually buy 14 feet -- and that does EVERYTHING with enough left over to use a bit as vacuum hose where it'll fit. 20-25 feet is overkill IMO. _________________ 71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
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MOCHABILL Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2008 Posts: 584 Location: BY THE BAY
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry to put a negative spin on this,I've several leaks occur at the ends of the hose,seems as if the hose delaminates and fuel seeps out.This is the Gates brand hose using the proper clamps,frustrating as hell,too tight clamps??
_________________ '71 Squareback FI
'07 Passat wagon 2.0
'03 Ranger 4door 4.0 |
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vlad01 Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 3069 Location: Australia
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Mike Fisher wrote: |
vlad01 wrote: |
Firstly you should be using EFI hose not general purpose hose like some people are say here I seen what happens when general fuel hose is used on EFI.
2ndly they don't make hose like they used to for off the self grade stuff.
I have EFI hose in my car that is 20 years old and seems better quality despite the age than the new hose I put on. I had to replace the hose as it was getting too short from trimming a few times in its life not from any deterioration of any sorts. It has the standard oem clamp not the common worm screw type clamps, so when the hose gets squished too much the standard clap runs out of clamp. so trimming is necessary
its amazing really! 20 years! I still have the hoses I removed in my glove box in case of a road side issue with the new hose.
yeah the good old days of quality |
You wouldn't know Goodyear from Gates, Vlad! You haven't turned one wrench on your notchback yet. |
I know what gates is, I work with their belts on a daily basis.
Yes I have done stuff and testing of new gear on the notch but thats none of your beezz wax. |
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vlad01 Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2010 Posts: 3069 Location: Australia
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Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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JSMskater wrote: |
You don't need the special FI hose. Our cars see a max of 30 Psi, and they have a burst rate around 120. This has been answered over the years numerous times, and not a single reported failure or leak. Vlad is probably used to modern systems which run CONSIDERABLY higher pressures.
As far as length goes, I usually buy 14 feet -- and that does EVERYTHING with enough left over to use a bit as vacuum hose where it'll fit. 20-25 feet is overkill IMO. |
yes 43 psi, not much higher, but still a general fuel hose on efi regardless of efi specs is big no no! |
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