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Trans input shaft damaged in removal?
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cardinal0128
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Trans input shaft damaged in removal? Reply with quote

Wanted to pose this one to the board, I just dropped my engine from my 78 Bay, to get to the fuel tank. I was trying to follow Ratwells' instructions for engine removal but I screwed up the balancing and ended up putting stress on the trans input shaft during removal. I obviously couldn't see all of the details, but I think the shaft was hung up on the pressure plate during removal for a short time. I'm not sure how much but I'm just worried about it screwing up the input shaft seal and I'm wondering if I should just replace it while I still have the engine out? There aren't any signs of current leakage from either the trans side or the engine side in the bellhousing.

Any input would be appreciated.
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busmania
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably fine but with the seal being so cheap, just replace it and be done with it. Peace of mind!
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VDubTech
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....and one more of a million reasons to remove the engine and transmission as a unit, and reinstall the same way.
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cardinal0128
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK. Are there any special tools required? I read in some other posts just find a piece of pipe that is the right size to drive it back in. I'm also planning on replacing the throwout bearing with a German Sachs unit while I'm in there.

I showed the driven plate to my mechanic and he thought that it looked good enough to leave alone vs. pulling the flywheel and having in resurfaced, etc.
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merlinj79
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah as long as you're in there service the clutch. Replace seal and T/O bearing and anything else that's worn.
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cardinal0128
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking of leaving the clutch disk alone for now since I wasn't having any problems with it in practice. My mechanic says leave it alone, vs. take off the flywheel, have it serviced, and replacing a seal that isn't leaking. Thoughts?

I also don't have the tools to measure end play so I'm worried about upsetting the apple cart for a smooth running engine...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

put it in 4th gear, have someone turn a wheel while someone else holds the other one. See if the shaft has a big wobble in it.

Take the trans out cause it is so much easier doing the engine and trans as a pair. Get the $70 HF atv jack for the engine and use your jack for the trans.
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cardinal0128
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, what do you mean with the 4th gear test?

Also, I have an ATV jack and my engine is currently out. Trans is still in the vehicle but thinking of dropping the trans now and doing the shift rod bearings. My shifting isn't terrible but it's not super crisp either.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it takes 3 people unless you block one wheel. 2 to turn while you watch the input shaft as it turns. it will either be true or be bent. hold it in your fingers or let it sit inside a box or open end wrench and see if it wobbles. It will sag because it is unsupported however you have to support it to know how true it is. You might want to replace the pilot bearing while the engine is out. Also I would at least clean up the flywheel and replace the clutch disc if it is worn.
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cardinal0128
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, as a test for the input shaft. I will do that. I don't think I put enough force on it to bend the shaft, but maybe enough to damage the oil seal.

Thoughts on replacing the clutch disk and pressure plate without having the flywheel resurfaced?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you've never replaced the input shaft seal you would want to do it now regardless. If the fingers on the pressure plate wern't damaged there is a very slim chance the shaft is. Be sure and check the end play now. A dial indicator and the fixture is nice but not at all needed. It can be done accurately using a feeler gauge and a bit of creativity. Tom Wilson might discuss how to do it.
Replacing a clutch disc might be an option. Maybe unnecessary.
I always go over the flywheel surface. What works fantastic is a small palm held orbital sander and course paper. Do it to the pressure plate surface also.
Don't forget to lube the pilot bearing.
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cardinal0128
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I checking the end play on the input shaft or on the crankshaft?

Also, where can I get a good quality input shaft seal?
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Desertbusman
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crankshaft endplay.

I get the seals from a local VW trans builder.
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cardinal0128
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the mainshaft seal in from Airhead Parts. The seal says Germany on it, so I think I'll give it a go with the replacement.
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santychago
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys Iught be going through the same problem Here. As to the 4th gear test I want to try it. I know my main shaft seal is worn. Not sure about the actual input shaft. I can toggle it freely but not sure if its just cause the seal is bad. So ima jack the rear of the car, place it on 4th and have someone hold one tire while the other turns another back tire right? And if it wobbles up and down means its bad right? Now do I do this with the worn seal or after I replace it? Thnx in advance
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

santychago wrote:
Hey guys Iught be going through the same problem Here. As to the 4th gear test I want to try it. I know my main shaft seal is worn. Not sure about the actual input shaft. I can toggle it freely but not sure if its just cause the seal is bad. So ima jack the rear of the car, place it on 4th and have someone hold one tire while the other turns another back tire right? And if it wobbles up and down means its bad right? Now do I do this with the worn seal or after I replace it? Thnx in advance


Not sure what you are really saying, but it is normal for the input shaft to move around a bit when the engine and tranny are separated. That is 100% normal.
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