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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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 Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: 412 under new ownership (split from Pretty bummed...) |
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| vwfye wrote: |
| After fighting the car for a couple years now to keep it running, I'm done with it. It is going to an FI expert. |
No, it's going to a sucker. 
Get those stupid flames off it first, hoser!  I'll bet then it'll straighten up and run right. Ever think that maybe the problem with your cars is that they're embarrassed to be seen in public? 
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| vwfye wrote: |
| After fighting the car for a couple years now to keep it running, I'm done with it. It is going to an FI expert. |
No, it's going to a sucker.
Get those stupid flames off it first, hoser! I'll bet then it'll straighten up and run right. Ever think that maybe the problem with your cars is that they're embarrassed to be seen in public? |
Then you and the car are meant for each other!
I'm betting it will dead simple to get running straight. The PO was evry relucantant to do ALL the small detailas that are the normal starting point on these systems. Ray |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| vwfye wrote: |
| After fighting the car for a couple years now to keep it running, I'm done with it. It is going to an FI expert. |
No, it's going to a sucker.
Get those stupid flames off it first, hoser! I'll bet then it'll straighten up and run right. Ever think that maybe the problem with your cars is that they're embarrassed to be seen in public? |
Then you and the car are meant for each other!
I'm betting it will dead simple to get running straight. The PO was evry relucantant to do ALL the small detailas that are the normal starting point on these systems. Ray |
Well, if not, there's always full coverage insurance + an Ohio Blue Tip.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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vwfye
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2000
Posts: 7661
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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actually Ray, there is much more to it than that, but thanks for the positive comment  I brought this car to life after it sat for 18 years and drove it daily. I ran into issues, didn't have the correct tools to diagnois and found that it was a direction I did not care to go. So, it sat. Now, a friend will have it, and I will have another type 3. This is a win/win.
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64 No'back Speedster "Pearl"
1980s Sand Dragster "The Plunger"
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| vwfye wrote: |
| actually Ray, there is much more to it than that, but thanks for the positive comment I brought this car to life after it sat for 18 years and drove it daily. I ran into issues, didn't have the correct tools to diagnois and found that it was a direction I did not care to go. So, it sat. Now, a friend will have it, and I will have another type 3. This is a win/win. |
Cool! I wasn't trying to beat you down. I know there is always more to it when it comes down to one of these beasts. All I was getting at is that tehre are some small but significant details that you never got covered while you have been working on this thing....that could (and most likely are) the cause of the problems you have been having.
You did a lot...and you did the right thing for the car. Thank you for that!
I fully understand not having the time or tools for diagnosis. Bear in mind that I learned everything I know about type 4's and D-jet....the hard way....and before the ineternet Every mistake or mis-diagnosis or skipped step you have ever made....I have made 5 or 6 times.....or more.
For others reading this...my only point that I was getting at....is that with these particular cars and engines....the car and its problems do not care what time or tools you might or might not have......every last thing must be checked and must be in order to at least a given level.
Because parts are so rare...for certain things......until you get the the baseline dependable level or have the right tools....you should wait.
Or...if you are diving into one of these for the first time and either can;t get the right tools and time required....I would reccomend doing what VWfye did.....pass on it.
I wasn't taking a poke at you. My apologies if I was rude. Ray |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I finally got this Fyeonized (TM) heap running today. Buddy of mine did the heavy lifting because my back is still fritzed, but we got it to where it would crank and fire, and the fuel pump would run with coil power.
Due to the dearth of info on 1974 412s out there, I used a combo of Beetle and Bus AFC troubleshooting and found out that the double relay wasn't getting battery power due to a very corroded connector on the red/ black wire at the battery. So, to the parts store for a new battery terminal end for a buck fitty and bada BING she fired right over and ran like a Swiss watch. Now I just have to get the speaker wire harness off the damn FP and get it wired correctly to the double relay. I have a couple NOS doubles if this one is fritzed, but everything else in the relay works, so... 
Here's another reminder that BASIC-BASIC- BASIC stuff is key when dealing with voodoo injection! If it ain't got power or it ain't got a ground, it can't work no matter how many thousand dollar parts you pitch at it.
I've really just been trying to ignore the fact that this car is even really here, but I happened onto a killer deal on matching black leatherette front seats to match the rest of the interior (it has NICE brown Euro cloth seats in it now- but they don't match- and GOOD LUCK finding the rest of the Euro interior ) thanks to spook1 and then Dale (dphdo) got sick of kicking around that nice recovered dash in the Classys, and it's here now.
The plan is to replace the springs cut by the PO to "lower" it, and probably shocks/ struts (we'll see), then figure out why the LF brake is locked, the fluid is gone, and there's no pedal. I need to find two rear salt and pepper carpet mats to make all the carpets match. Then, thankfully, all the bitchin' flames and other "highlights" will come off with Acetone, then it'll be a quick cut and buff. I'm planning on replicating the faux woodgrain sides and really just put it back the way it should be.
Of course, I'll need to seek and destroy some oil leaks along the way, as well as get the gas heater working (hopefully it's still there) and if I can actually make progress and get it running well/ looking good, I'll likely add A/C down the road. But we'll see. Nothing like having many thousands of dollars in a $250 hoopty that no- one wants except you cheap warped maggots in the Type 4 forums.
I just can't get over how completely free of any and all rust this car is. No sign of even a rust run or a bubble in ANY of the problem areas. I know you all say that this doesn't happen, but, by Jove, it did.
This is going to be a real love/ hate relationship. I'm hoping to wind up with a nice original that will give ALLWAGONS a run for his money. We'll see.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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reluctantartist
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006
Posts: 1927
Location: Bloomington, IN
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Here's another reminder that BASIC-BASIC- BASIC stuff is key when dealing with voodoo injection! If it ain't got power or it ain't got a ground, it can't work no matter how many thousand dollar parts you pitch at it. |
The funny thing for me is if you put me in front of a carb setup I freeze. I am much to lazy for that. A digital volt meter and the right fuel injection manual and I am set. The AFC fuel injection manual in the archives covers the L-jet on the 412 from my experience.
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1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them. |
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19super73
Hardcore Stock Nazi
Joined: October 18, 2007
Posts: 4351
Location: Cité Soleil
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 17970
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:55 am Post subject: |
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$1.50 battery terminal is BASIC! Russ had some NOS wood grain panels for Type 3 or 4? We want to see you driving an air cooled wondercar again!
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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19super73
Hardcore Stock Nazi
Joined: October 18, 2007
Posts: 4351
Location: Cité Soleil
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19super73
Hardcore Stock Nazi
Joined: October 18, 2007
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Most excellent- Bookmarked- Danke!
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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19super73
Hardcore Stock Nazi
Joined: October 18, 2007
Posts: 4351
Location: Cité Soleil
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| 19super73 wrote: |
| I may be asking your expertise on d-jet in the future as my '73 has an issue where it starts, runs and as it warms up, stalls. |
No prob- fire away when ready. My K manual covers Type 4 D jet but not L jet or AFC as we called it back then, and only up to '73. The '74 412 seems to be the bastid that no- one seems to want to acknowledge.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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19super73
Hardcore Stock Nazi
Joined: October 18, 2007
Posts: 4351
Location: Cité Soleil
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
Well, I finally got this Fyeonized (TM) heap running today. Buddy of mine did the heavy lifting because my back is still fritzed, but we got it to where it would crank and fire, and the fuel pump would run with coil power.
Due to the dearth of info on 1974 412s out there, I used a combo of Beetle and Bus AFC troubleshooting and found out that the double relay wasn't getting battery power due to a very corroded connector on the red/ black wire at the battery. So, to the parts store for a new battery terminal end for a buck fitty and bada BING she fired right over and ran like a Swiss watch. Now I just have to get the speaker wire harness off the damn FP and get it wired correctly to the double relay. I have a couple NOS doubles if this one is fritzed, but everything else in the relay works, so...
Here's another reminder that BASIC-BASIC- BASIC stuff is key when dealing with voodoo injection! If it ain't got power or it ain't got a ground, it can't work no matter how many thousand dollar parts you pitch at it.
I've really just been trying to ignore the fact that this car is even really here, but I happened onto a killer deal on matching black leatherette front seats to match the rest of the interior (it has NICE brown Euro cloth seats in it now- but they don't match- and GOOD LUCK finding the rest of the Euro interior ) thanks to spook1 and then Dale (dphdo) got sick of kicking around that nice recovered dash in the Classys, and it's here now.
The plan is to replace the springs cut by the PO to "lower" it, and probably shocks/ struts (we'll see), then figure out why the LF brake is locked, the fluid is gone, and there's no pedal. I need to find two rear salt and pepper carpet mats to make all the carpets match. Then, thankfully, all the bitchin' flames and other "highlights" will come off with Acetone, then it'll be a quick cut and buff. I'm planning on replicating the faux woodgrain sides and really just put it back the way it should be.
Of course, I'll need to seek and destroy some oil leaks along the way, as well as get the gas heater working (hopefully it's still there) and if I can actually make progress and get it running well/ looking good, I'll likely add A/C down the road. But we'll see. Nothing like having many thousands of dollars in a $250 hoopty that no- one wants except you cheap warped maggots in the Type 4 forums.
I just can't get over how completely free of any and all rust this car is. No sign of even a rust run or a bubble in ANY of the problem areas. I know you all say that this doesn't happen, but, by Jove, it did.
This is going to be a real love/ hate relationship. I'm hoping to wind up with a nice original that will give ALLWAGONS a run for his money. We'll see. |
Great to hear. I have spent eons in these cars. let me know if I can help. Ray |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I had a few minutes to putter today, and I can already tell this is going to be a "gift that just keeps on giving".
Just wanted to try to bleed and diagnose the "no brakes" issue today, so I squirted down all the bleeders with PB last night to let them soak.
Should have done the lug nuts, too. I had to use the big Snap On breaker bar plus the big floor jack handle as the air and HD gun wouldn't touch it.
Of course, the bleeders are breaking off like buttah. Hopefully new wheel cyls and calipers and soft lines and probably hard lines are available. In my experience, if the bleeders shear, so will the hard line nuts.
So, buttoned that back up in case I need to *gingerly* move it, and happened to notice that the steering wheel flops all over hell on the column. Popped the cover and found a "loose nut behind the wheel", but, of course, that didn't fix it. Pulled the wheel and the steering shaft is just swimming in the bearing. Is there a plastic sleeve that went away? That's what it looks like. Of course, this is where the trusty parts book turns into a Haynes manual- it *looks* like there's some sort of a sleeve that slips onto the steering shaft, but it has no number or designation.
I'm going to wind up having to tear this apart and go chase "unobtanium" parts, aren't I?
This isn't gonna be the "e-z fix" I thought it was going to be. I really don't have time for this with all the other stuff I have going on, so I may just have to bail on this till later.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Tram-ster...I have a handful of the corrugated bearing for the shaft. It is a corrugated split bushing. I can drop one in the mail. Its a type 1 part....some supers used this bushing also I think .....111-953-535 D. The ball bearing behind the snap ring is also a type 1 part
111-953-559-A from chassis 411-2000-001
The front rubber brake lines are 113-611-775. same on both sides.
The rear rubber brake lines are also 113-611-775. I have also used a type 2 part # to replace rear rubber lines perfectly. I'll look in my notes. Ray |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Tram-ster...I have a handful of the corrugated bearing for the shaft. It is a corrugated split bushing. I can drop one in the mail. Its a type 1 part....some supers used this bushing also I think .....111-953-535 D. The ball bearing behind the snap ring is also a type 1 part
111-953-559-A from chassis 411-2000-001
The front rubber brake lines are 113-611-775. same on both sides.
The rear rubber brake lines are also 113-611-775. I have also used a type 2 part # to replace rear rubber lines perfectly. I'll look in my notes. Ray |
Are these plastic corrugated sleeves? If so, they're the same as a Wabbit, and I have one. I slipped it down onto the shaft just for giggles and it stopped- dead- right before entering the bearing. It looked like it might solve the problem, but, of course, it just won't won't go any more. I guess I'm going to have to tear the damn column apart. Drat.
Thanks for the other info. Found out that wheel cyls are the same as T3 along with shoes, but I have one STUCK caliper, and these are Type 4/ 914 only, so I'm told, and- of course- everyone says they're NLA.
I thought they were the same as late Type 3, but no dice, I guess.
NOW- What about lower ball joints and upper bearing plates?
Like I said- "The gift that just keeps on giving".
This here VW Edsel is gonna drive me to drinkin', even more than that hot- rod- Lincoln.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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reluctantartist
Samba Member
Joined: August 13, 2006
Posts: 1927
Location: Bloomington, IN
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:39 am Post subject: |
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some supers used this bushing also I think .....111-953-535 D. The ball bearing behind the snap ring is also a type 1 part
111-953-559-A from chassis 411-2000-001
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I need these parts too, but I can't seem to find anyone who has them. It looks like porsche used them at one time too. Does anyone have a source?
_________________
1982 Westy, 1974 412 Variant... Yes, Aircooled's are great! Oh and I do have modern computer controlled vehicles too, but I just don't care about them. |
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