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Joe's 1957 Double Door Panel Build
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Andy P
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Location: NSW, Australia.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely loving those tyres.
They're the style I'd love to put on my '62 Panel project but getting them in Oz would be nearwell impossible.
I'll have to look at shipping and see if getting them from your side of the pond is a possibility.
How much were they each?
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'62 Beetle

Jägdwagen
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Low Bräu
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Andy, I'm not sure what they cost. I think they were around $120 USD each. I've heard the company is kind of unorganized and difficult to deal with. I think they sell to a distribution network and only direct you to the closest vendor. There are more pics of these tires in the big meats tire thread, not by me though. Maybe Joe will get off his a$$ and post some info.

Here is a link to their website.
http://www.stausaonline.com/
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Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665

Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.

1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap)
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Andy P
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I've seen the site before.
Y'know, I love living in Australia but the range and relative cheapness of parts you guys have is really to be envied.
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Jägdwagen
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tyzel
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
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those tires look awesome on there, like this bus, great thread!!!

I run 215-15-75 Toyo M-55's on my 62, rears are a bit tight to get on but don't have to deflate any, love the way they look and ride great. I push mine with a stock small nut and a big bore 40, the combo seems to work well together.

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Keep up the great work!!
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Low Bräu
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those M55 Toyos look great! We looked into getting those but they were a bit more expensive than the Super Traxions. I'm really digging the look of the sidewall. The "toyo" script looks old school. Cool

Having never done a baywindow IRS swap before, I wasn't sure what was going to fit under the rear fender. Especially on an early bus with the inward facing lip. The bay drum is larger than the small nut bus drum and I wasn't sure how that would come into play. It would have really sucked to have spend $600 to $700 on tires only to find out they rub or interfere with the suspension or bodywork.

I still plan on covering installing the rear shocks, 4 wheel alignment, building the engine and gearbox, axles, nosecone adapter/mount, etc. All this needs to be finished by the first week of November. Ughhhhh........
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Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665

Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.

1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap)
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ccb_dan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saw the blue panel in person...pretty dope bus and the work you are doing is killer man.

Thanks again for helping me out too! Hopefully doesn't delay you getting the panel done for Bulli.
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Brown_Bus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome work so far guys. Wish I could be down there to see it in person.

Congrats on the shop Josh.
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aitor11
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really nice work!!!! Maybe you know that, but the brazilians Bay-Split from the 90s use IRS like the early bays. The arms you had to modify are shorter from factory and they fit. I have a set that i am going to use in my 60DC http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=478368. I am thinking of using the rear brakes from an early bay but I think some parts are different, the stub axle is larger than a late bay, right?.


Aitor
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Low Bräu
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the positive comments. I think I remember seeing a picture of a brazilian bus control arm on here once. If I remember correctly it had the VAG audi/vw part number but I could be wrong. Those arms would be nearly impossible to find in the US since those buses generally never made it over here.

Good work on the D-cab. You've come along way with that project in a reasonably short amount of time. I am impressed!

Not much progress to report at this point. Haven't had too much time and we're still waiting on parts. Bulli is just around the corner so we need to get things moving.
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Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665

Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.

1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap)
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gordon maltby
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bus looks great but I have a comment. Those are what we used to call snow tires (Now it's "Winter" tires with high tech tread and compounds). Back in the day you would only use those in the cold months. Even trucks and vans would switch over to summer tires in the spring, because those treads would make a lot of noise and feel squirrely, a trade-off because of the traction you could get. They look cool but someone (like me) from the frozen north would wonder why you run snow tires all year.

Keep up the good work,

Gordon
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Brown_Bus
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe or Josh,

any updates?
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The Gnome
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We'll try to post some updates on the build this week. Tranny is in, mystery motor is in, 1957 Florida license plate is registered. Just waiting on my rekeyed handles/ignition to arrive.
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1957 Dove Blue DD Panel (OG paint)
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ricekooker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Post some pictures!
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Low Bräu
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back again. I know it's been a while since I last posted. The bus is running and driving now so I'll try to play catch up.

Gordon. Yes, these tires are what some people used to run as "snows" up north. Modern snow tires have cipes that provide a way better level of traction when compared to anything like these. I lived in New England for a few years but couldn't acclimate to the harsh winters having lived nearly my whole life in Florida.

The tires aren't considerably noisy so far but they do handle like bias ply tires. I am aware of the pros and cons of bias ply tires vs. radials. My 52 has bias plies and I would never consider running anything but on it. It's a vintage car from the 50's so I only expect so much from it. The bus is currently aligned properly with all new suspension components so its already in better shape than most of the VWs I see. Beside the noise from the rattling cargo doors drowns out any possible road noise. Laughing

We ended up getting a used 4.12 R&P trans from a friend who was changing over to a 3.88 in his Ghia. The current 1600 motor feels at home with the 4.12. I think once the new motor is finished we may investigate different gear ratios but we'll run this for now.

We had to change the front nose cone to a later split bus nose cone and use a conversion mount from Wagens West. To use the WW mount the gusset on the end of the nose cone where the hockey exits needs to be trimmed back. I'm sure its strong enough but I wanted to see more support on the end of the gearbox. The WW adapter mount is also made form Urethane which is stiffer than the rubber that was originally used. I decided to fab up a quick mid mount using Volvo trans mounts and miscellaneous crap I had around the shop. The Volvo mounts are German Febi/Billstein and are super cheap. Volvo used these mounts for many years. The mounts will thread into the frame horns then the mount can be bolted to the gearbox and to the bus. It all sits level with the engine cradle so nothing is hanging down. Here are some pictures of the work completed.

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Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665

Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.

1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap)
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The Gnome
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First things on my to do list after Bulli will be to rebuild all the door seals and upper frames and then do up a better motor. If all goes well, I will be driving the bus home tomorrow. Hopefully the winds from this hurricane won't be 50mph gusts like they are calling for.
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Low Bräu
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are a few more pictures of the mid mount on the gearbox as well as installed in the bus.

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One of my biggest concerns was the axles. The axles had to clear the frame horns and run at a relatively steep angle. I've installed a few kits from Wolfgang and/or Bus Boys and I remember them coming with new axle shafts that had long "full floating" splined shafts. Hopefully, this will be valuable to anyone wanting to do this conversion. I first purchased two complete new axles that were made by Empi. I wasn't crazy about using Chinese axles but in the off road forum guys seem to run them without issues. I know that Empi is becoming a major player in axles. They're even making axles for newer Audi, Porsche, etc. Crazy huh? Well, the type 2 axles only provide 17 degrees of articulation which was going to be a problem because sitting static the axles were just over 17 degrees. I even had a friend stand on the bumper to add some more weight since the motor was still not yet installed. I found this website that provide really good detailed info on your typical german cv joints like whats used on t1,t2, thing, bus, and some Porsches. I've never had to deal with raised/long travel suspension before so this was something new for me. I guess for the baja guys this is old news.

CV info:
Blind Chicken Racing, lets give them some credit http://www.blindchickenracing.com/How_to/CVJoints_Axles/cv_joints_101.htm

With that info I decide we'd need to run 944 CVs which are the same as what is used on VW things, 924, etc. The part number is 944 331 901 00 and they are German made Lobro/GNK brand. These joints provide up to 22 degrees of articulation which is just what we need. That puts the axle at a much safer working angle. I used the early bay shafts and race prepped the joints using the stock grease that comes in the Lobro kit. Nothing too fancy. On the gearbox end we swapped the 80mm beetle output flanges for 100mm VW thing flanges.

Side note: the next upgrade would be 930 CV joints which are much more expensive, have a different spline count on the inner race, are larger in diameter, and may have trouble clearing the frame horns without modification. The plus side is that they are extremely robust and can run up to 25 degrees. Thankfully, they were not needed.

I first assembled the axles without the boots or grease to confirm there wasn't any binding or that the ball wasn't trying to separate from the joint. Looks good. Shaft has plenty of "float" in/out movement nothing hanging up or binding. Here are some pics.

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Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665

Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.

1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap)
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cru62
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any ideas on the boots you will be using? I had a complete T-2 IRS in my 62 DC and at stock height it just ate up the stock boots. I even went with the 930 style offroad boots which use a seperate ring on the CV with no luck. If the "valley" of the boot sits on the axle, it eventually wears through and throws the grease EVERYWHERE! I tried every boot that was available. I eventually lowered the bus slightly. This required welding in adjusters on the beam. That was the start of a trip down the slippery slope of lowering that eventually ended up with drop spindles on a BJ beam and custom springplates out back. And it wasn't really even that low.

I tried the stock boots like you have with no luck. Since I will eventually be going the same route you are, any advise would be appreciated.
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Low Bräu
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cru62, I did consider the life of the boots. I actually spoke with a guy the other day who was running a T2 rear in his split and he said the exact same thing as you. I think he said it was his inner boots that fail first which would make since as they exposed to more heat. But I also remember him saying that he originally had 80mm flanges and switched to the 100s. Not sure if its still an issue. One thing I did do is leave off the inner boot clamp so the boot can shift if need be. You can also use plastic tie-wraps on small end of the boot which don't apply as much clamping force as the metal clamps and give the boot some added ability to move during rotation. We'll just have to keep an eye on it and see what happens.

My brother and I discussed adding adjusters to the front beam but we didn't think it would be needed. Now I wish we had just put adjusters on the beam when it was all apart. It would be nice to be able to really fine tune the ride height. Not having a swing axle is nice as you don't have to worry about drastic camber changes every time you make a height adjustment in the back. I think there is still plenty of room to drop this thing an inch or so with these tires and still not rub. I think it would look better too. I'd like to do the adjusters and disks sometime in the future. Right now we're just trying to get it road worthy for the trip to Bulli-Brigade in November. Feel free to hit me up later on for an update on the boots.

Thanks,
Josh
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Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665

Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.

1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap)
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cru62
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info, Josh. It might be eaisier to install adjustable rear springplates. That is how I handled the problem. I made my own and it was actually pretty simple. I don't think you guys would have any trouble at all.

I think buses look dumb with a "rake", especially a trailbasher. (Not talking about your bus.)

Thanks for the inspiration!
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Jokes about German sausage are the wurst.

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Low Bräu
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cru, Do you have any pictures of your adjustable spring plates or your bus at its current ride height?

One of the downsides of using the early bay rear parts is the brake line goes through the rear carrier and spring plate which is kind of a pain to take apart especially if you have your brakes juiced up. I had this one apart three or four times before I had it right. I didn't add brake fluid til the end once I knew it was staying were its at.

Josh
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Independent German Auto
671 Fern Drive
Merritt Island, FL 32952
(321) 449-4665

Specializing in repair and maintenance for Porsche, BMW, Mini, Audi, and Volkswagen.

1952 Standard Beetle
1960 SO-23 Westfalia
1961 L-380 Turkis Deluxe Beetle
1985 Vanagon Country Homes Camper (work in progress - EG33 swap)
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