Water Leak Into Westy. Source? PICS + VIDEO

[Vanagon Nut]

Hi all.

So it rained really hard last night. Water leaked into my '88 Westy. Two possible leak sources:

- duct tape at Dometic hole on body
- AC cord into van

But... Gorilla Tape is bonded really well to panel, shows no signs of separation, did not leak before. AC cord hung way down (angle) outside of fan. Hookups are sealed with 3M marine type below water line adhesive. Tan coloured stuff is Fluid Film. (thankfully)

There were no signs of leaks before that. All that changed was Rigid Board test fit, amount of rain and IIRC, me running the AC cord in.

Enough water came in to soak material under the bench seat. Water line possibly higher than shown.

What appears to have happened: water pooled under "a few drips", flowed over and around pillar metal and pooled at "water line" area.

Van is on a grade, rear facing on downhill.

It's next to impossible to diagnose via the 'net, but any suggestions as to where the water may have come in?

Bummer. Was going to finish up the insulation today.

Much thanks,

Neil.

AC cord was hanging like this

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[photogdave]

I get water in the exact same place but on the passenger side. My van is also parked with the rear sloping slightly downhill. (No leaks from the recent rain yet! )
I was thinking window seal, or in my case, sliding door seal.
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89 Syncro GL Westfalia 2.1 WBX/WBXaustSS

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[boof1306]

Possibly rust hole under window seal?

[madspaniard]

I did the garden hose test on my van, I got exactly the same leaks you labeled "a few drips" and "pool". Culprit? the outside panel seam, there are microcracks in the seam filler that you don't see but when the garden hose was pointed at it, it was the clear point of entry. Window seals were fine.
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali

[Vanagon Nut]

Thanks guys.

Madspaniard et al

here's some quick shots with a better camera.

I have to wonder if this van was hit on side, repainted etc. I can take more pics, but area at bottom of rocker in last pic looks like stuff was gooped on before repaint.

I was a little too "smitten" with the van when I saw it. Didn't look closely at body details. No regrets though. I still think this bus has way less rust than most.

These appear to be cracks in sealant, or at least where sealant has dried shrunk away from metal. These are of 1st seam behind (rearward) of utilities

Hard to imagine that much water getting in there as it has rained other times, no water got in. But. Rain could've been "sideways" at times. Will try garden hose.

Neil.

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[boof1306]

The miss aligned panel, inconsistant "orange peel" in the paint and seam sealer all point to panel repair to me. A black seam sealer might not be so visable on your blue paint if you don't want to repaint.

[madspaniard]

yeah, that seam is taking water
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali

[Vanagon Nut]

thanks boof1306 Good tip on the black sealant.

Sheesh. Didn't find anything via normal paid searches on this van.

Your comments, and this, may explain something else; what look like spot weld marks at inside of panel below driverside engine air intake. I wondered if panel was repaired there. Likely was. At least kitchen panel looks "new". .... I think.

Ironic discovery considering all the time I spent trying to find the best way (for my needs) to insulate behind the kitchen.

GLAD I found this leak now!

In the video, @ 10", normal pressure from garden hose is put to seam. (no nozzle). You can hear the increase from med. to higher pressures. Click on link and view full screen. It's amazing to see how "fast" the water comes in.

Thanks for the help people MUCH appreciated.

Edit: changed subject. Posted video to show what can happen, under certain conditions. This may be an extreme case of seam caulking failure. I have no idea.

Neil.



Link

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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Vanagon Nut]

Hi all.

I have yet to dig out the old caulking.

It seems some use windshield urethane or 3M products to seal seams.

IF there's no rust, will it suffice to scuff, clean, then apply 3M 5200

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/ca/en001/auto_mari...utput_html

straight onto paint?


Edit: Ok that was a somewhat foolish question! Some paint will come off while removing old caulk

Or would I be better off with 3M 4200 UV fast cure? http://products3.3m.com/catalog/ca/en001/auto_mari...utput_html

If I run into rust, I'll use Plastikote: http://www.plastikote.com/products/Specialty/Rust-Converter.html or Rust Mort http://semproducts.com/product-catalog/rust-and-corrosion/rust-mort/ I used Plastikote to treat seam rust on my '81. It appears to work ok and has stayed adhered to the body paint for the last couple of years.

If either of my plans is heavily flawed, comments are welcome!

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Vanagon Nut]

So are these tack welds I see? (arrows)

They're close to the outer edges of panels. Obviously the caulking failed, but I have to wonder how well the new caulk will seal at these points.

The caulking isn't as deep as I thought it would be but looking inside at the panels, I see why. Should be easy to take it down to clean metal, prime, paint with regular paint, then seal.

The tool shown did a good job (user error not withstanding) of getting in groove w/o causing damage to outer portion of paint job.

Time to buy a heat gun to dry out the join!

Neil.

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[IdahoDoug]

No, those would not be tack welds at the outer edge of the panels. They are spot welded from the inside and the spot welder could not get that close. Obviously a previous owner could do anything, but that would be unusual.


Dave,

For your passenger side leak, check to see if the latch that holds the slider open is loose (just pull the latched open door back and forth). If it is, water can get in behind it and then into the two screw holes. On mine, I had a heck of a time tightening the screws (access), then ran a bead of caulk along the top edge of the bracket so future water would be guided off it and to the ground.

DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1993 Toyota LandCruiser, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[Vanagon Nut]

[photogdave]

[Crankey]

Neil, what is it that you have on the angle grinder to dig out that sealer ? looks like it did a good job cleaning it out without grinding metal away.

I have more of this to do.

I also used Rust Mort. I like it, I don't like being stuck with the whole Por15 process/products. the first go round with rust repair did well with the Rust Mort.

I used an epoxy primer in a bomb can. it's like $25 per can, you pop a plug in the base to release the catalyst and shake well...after catalised it's good for 2 days I think ? but it's very good epoxy primer and sealer. can't remember the name...something MAX ?

[Vanagon Nut]

Hey Crankey.

Thanks for tip on primer. Was going to use etching primer.

Tool is oscillating type tool. This one:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/Hobb...?locale=en

not high end, but should last long enough. Not hard to control but is loud. Also used it to cut laminate on my cabinet for TF65. Made table saw work easier.

https://picasaweb.google.com/musomuso/TF65Into1988Westy

I haven't looked very hard, but my impression is that POR kits aren't easily found in Vancouver BC. Being able to get Plastikote or Rust Mort, easily, is useful. Good to hear report on the Rust Mort. FWIW, the Plastikote is doing ok, and, even the Tremclad I used has helped and is holding up ok last time I checked.

Assuming I find a day with decent ambient temps, will a heat gun ensure the seam is dry for primer etc. ?

Neil.

Ok. Figured I'd take some quick pix of my '81. "Body work" ranges from purchase date (2007?) to a couple years ago. My goal at time was to slow down rust. My work did that. Caveat: bus usually parked under carport, does not see Winter driving per se. I can do better work aesthetically speaking but that van was pretty patchy when I got it.

First job, Tremclad. Minor surface rust scraped down to bare metal.

Around about that time. Tremclad. Haphazard hammering out of dents at lip, no filler (duh) (used ball pein and metal block)

Again, scraped down to bare metal. Edit: only seam scraped, no caulking put back in. Primed, spray bomb with incredibly accurate colour match. "Chestnut Brown" IIRC

Plastikote at inside behind kitchen and here, closed seam up (was separating) Seam still "closed"

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[adv rider]

I was trying to get to my rear heater core today, And found that i am having the same type of leak in addition to needing a new rear heater core. I inspected the seam on drivers side next to rear bench and i could see the cracked/missing seam sealer. What about sealing from the inside? using some type of sealant along inside, so paint is not damaged removing old sealant. I too just purchased van 6 wks ago and not looking to make the paint look worse at this time
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86' Wolfsburg weekender 2.1, 4spd, , merian brown

[Vanagon Nut]

[vweggie]

[peaceful warrior]

This is what I used to seal the seams on my Vanagon after body work. Once it set up, painted right over it. I have also used it on other VW's to seal seams in fender wells. It will stick to painted metal.

I found these that come in colors, but do not set up fast.

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"Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
"Notchboy" says "Man up!"
"Tram" says " My bus is bigger than your bus."
66 13W Deluxe, 68 Westfalia, 87 Syncro.
TOOB Member #15
Brian

[Vanagon Nut]

vweggie, peaceful warrior, thanks.

Just for laffs, will call local VW dealership today. See if they have touch up bottles of LH5V Slate Blue.

Random thought: wrap emery cloth on oscillating tool blade to sand down seam to outer shoulder of seal, use touch up paint to "match" to existing paint job.

Am hoping temps get high enough to finish this job.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN