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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Today I did more research, separated the syncros on 1st and 2nd, inspected the rest of the components and drew up a parts list.
The first thing I have decided today is that 1st gear is not worn out. I don't think it is pristine but at $2500 it better fall out of the car and onto the road if it wants replacing. I looked at pictures on line of others and they do look very similar so it stays. Get used to it.
So I managed to disassemble the syncro rings on 1st and 2nd. Those snap rings are pretty tough. You can see the carnage on 1st, 2nd doesn't look too bad.
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3E...3336nu0mrj
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3E...5336nu0mrj
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3E...7336nu0mrj
I'm going to replace everything associated with these two gears, except the gears themselves. I just need a tool to get the dog teeth rings off.
I then looked over the main shaft gears. I've decided to leave these alone as, in my opinion they look pretty good and I've never had any issues shifting 3 to 5,
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3E...3336nu0mrj
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3E...4336nu0mrj
So here is the parts list so far. Did I miss anything?
1st gear brake band (37)
1st gear dog teeth
1st gear synchro ring (39)
1st/2nd shift hub (41)
1st/2nd shift sleeve (42)
2nd gear brake band (37)
2nd gear dog teeth
2nd gear synchro ring (39)
accelerator pivot bushing (13)
Main shaft lock nut
Pinion shaft lock nut
Transmission Cover O-Ring
Transmission Gasket Set
dog tooth ring tool
There's also a few engine pieces to replace and add a new cutch cable and helper spring. I still have to decide if I'm upgrading the clutch and whether or not to install an LSD. Running out of time not to mention money. _________________ Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA________www.BRAIDUSA.com
Proud sponsor of PCA and Porsche Parade. See you there. |
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Just dropped over $2000 in exchange for some snazzy transmission parts.
For the first time in months I have a free weekend but alas, parts won't be here till Monday These cars move a lot quicker when they're not in pieces. _________________ Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA________www.BRAIDUSA.com
Proud sponsor of PCA and Porsche Parade. See you there. |
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 11:22 am Post subject: |
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There are some issues with replacing your own engagement teeth on earlier Porsche gears.
First of all, replacement teeth do not have a fully cut 9* angle, which properly holds the synchro ring to operational dimension. This tiny angle is cut by the factory AFTER the teeth have been installed on the gear, so that this angle is perfectly concentric with the bore of the gear. (The "splines" that are machined on teeth and gear can't be relied upon to install together perfectly concentric.)
Gerry Woods and others have set ups to grind this 9* angle on replaced gear teeth.
Secondly .. after installing the teeth, the factory swages the ends of the splines with a special 50-ton press, to hold those teeth in place. Removing the old teeth will disrupt this factory swaging to some degree, as will installing the new teeth. The result can be teeth that slowly pull off the gear (not always, but quite often). A spot welder with special tip can be utilized to electronically swage every third spline end, to approximate the factory swage. This is not a weld, but rather a subtle deforming of the spline(s). Doing this to only one-third of the splines allows for one or two future rebuilds. This is most critical with 3rd & 4th gears, least critical with 1st and 5th.
If chancing this job without a special spot welder, the best way is to dremel cut the teeth before removal, relieving pressure so that the factory swage isn't flattened out too bad. (The removal tool is still useful for easier removal.) When installing the new teeth, heat them in an oven first (200*F), while sticking the gear itself in the freezer.
Guard Transmission and others have the special spot welder.
The shift sleeve's teeth can be "race prepped", which is merely the removal of all sharp edges. This prolongs smooth operation because it gives displaced material somewhere to go.
Build-up in this one spot on each tooth makes it progressively harder to engage a gear:
Race prepping a sleeve:
3rd & 4th gears can be expected to begin exhibiting shifting problems in a transaxle that has this many miles on it. You may wish to consider doing 3rd & 4th as well. The real hot ticket is installing 930 engagement teeth and related parts on 915 3rd & 4th gears. This eliminates the threat of popped-off snap ring, not uncommon in raced 915 transaxles. _________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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gears Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002 Posts: 4391 Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Paul, some of your photos are clickable, but most aren't (so, I for one, can't see them) .. but I have seen your speedo ring photos on the other forum.
Personally, I wouldn't trust the epoxy holding your other magnets in place. Something's caused the epoxy to shrink and pull away from the aluminum.
I don't recall which Porsche speedo ring I photographed, but as you can see, Porsche seems to think the polarity is important, as they've marked which way to place them.
_________________ aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com |
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:36 am Post subject: |
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And after I installed this new cutch spring I drove it home
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3E...A336nu0mrj
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3E...B336nu0mrj
Transmission seemed to work fine. Clutch still needs adjusting though. Blows my mind that I can single handedly put back the engine and transmission but it needs two people to adjust the clutch! The speedo doesn't work, probably because I forgot to connect the wires in the transmission tunnel; and the oil gauge is pegged at 5 despite a new sender. Should all be easy fixes. Think I'll drag it up to the Sno*Drift Rally tomorrow. _________________ Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA________www.BRAIDUSA.com
Proud sponsor of PCA and Porsche Parade. See you there. |
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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So to troubleshoot the damp patch we cleaned up the area as best we could. It's not very accessible on the front side and our UR Quattro has squatters rights on the hoist till it's done but we did our best with a floor jack and a flashlight. While doing this we discovered that the outer line was loose where it connects to the oil cooler. We, of course, tightened it up but, not wanting to jump to conclusions and looking for an excuse to test drive the car took it to visit Oakland University's Formula SAE team as they need some wheels for next year's car.
http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3E...%3Bcot1lsi
http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3E...g84eot1lsi
During the "test drive" the oil never got hot enough to open the thermostat to the front oil cooler so that didn't tell us much. We had to let it idle in the showroom for ten minutes more to open it up but we were still not sure if we still have a leak or not. The suspect line is still soaked with oil so we can't tell if it is getting more soaked and the front of the cooler is still caked in dirt and oil and we can't see it. The only hint of a leak was from around the ferrules at each end of the suspect line but we think that was brake cleaner boiling off as oil would just seep and this was bubbling.
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3E...6245ot1lsi
So what to do?
a) One idea is "nothing". The car is probably not going to get hot enough to open the oil cooler thermostat till next June and we did find a loose connector which is a pretty obvious red flag.
b) Take the oil cooler out, clean up the connectors and replace one or all of the mounts.
c) Same as above but replace the lines too.
For now I think we will go with b) Agreed? _________________ Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA________www.BRAIDUSA.com
Proud sponsor of PCA and Porsche Parade. See you there. |
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: 911 Carrera RallyCross Project |
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So we went with b) Take the oil cooler out, clean up the connectors and replace one or all of the mounts.
The lines were a bit tight. Well, one of them was. Had to use a heat wrench on it but it freed up. The bottom mount that wasn't broken broke so we only had to unscrew the top mount then the cooler came out easily. This left us with a damp oil cooler with two broken mounts. The top mount that was was still attached to the cooler refused to budge; the nut was so rusted as to not resemble a nut at all. So then we had three broken mounts to try to remove. Fun!
http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3E...e6f4ot1lsi
The two bottom mounts we drilled out on the drill press. The top mount we hack-sawed off. Then we cleaned out RallyCross debris from between the tubes and we were ready for our new mounts we got from Pelican. Only about $5 each. Some parts for these cars are very inexpensive. Some aren't.
http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3E...3A43ot1lsi
http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3E...i%3Aot1lsi
http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3E...7445ot1lsi
Before re-installing our cooler we wrapped it in cardboard as we wanted to see if it had any effect on oil temperature as we experience what we consider very low oil temperature in the winter. Unfortunately our phone died so we have no pictures. Once the outside temperatures head south our 911 barley gets out of the first notch on the temperature gauge. We were always taught that gauges are designed to read straight up or level when at the ideal temperature or pressure or whatever so you can just glance at them and know everything is OK. So just above that first bar (ours is like on the left) always felt low to us but without numbers on the gauge we never really knew what the temperature was. Then we found this face-plate picture which gave us some clues.
http://images2.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp83232%3E...4336nu0mrj
So we were getting around 140F on the coldest days in Michigan when it can be -20F outside. That's actually not as bad as we thought. Then we remembered that the engine thermostat is designed to open at around 185F which means that's the operating temperature Porsche expect the engine to stabilize at. If you look on the face-plates that's not that high up. If it can't manage that it opens the external thermostat and sends oil to the front oil cooerl too; the one we just blanked off. A test drive at 50F resulted in our gauge indicating around 180 with the front oil cooler lines still cold, suggesting that the engine oil cooler was doing its job and our attempts to raise the oil temperature by wrapping the front cooler were both unnecessary and futile as it's not even in play.
http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3E...g2ifot1lsi
This temperature was verified by an infra red thermometer aimed at various parts of the engine. However, when it's really cold out the temperature often never even gets out of the first segment so something else must be keeping it cold.
The first winter we ran the car we don't remember it struggling to make heat. This only started the second winter after the engine had been out and a few "while you are in theres" attended to. We always wondered if we'd accidentally improved the cooling while we were in there but recently realized one other thing we had done to the car since the first winter: added a whale tail. It is now our theory that that scoop is a lot more effective at ramming cold air through the deck lid to the fan and is preventing the oil from reaching proper operating temperature during very cold weather. Therefore our next project is to take off the cladding from the front oil cooler and rig up some sort of restrictor for the deck lid and test in lower temperatures that are surely on their way.
Does all this sound plausible? _________________ Paul Eddleston
BRAID Wheels USA________www.BRAIDUSA.com
Proud sponsor of PCA and Porsche Parade. See you there. |
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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BRAID Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2012 Posts: 183 Location: USA
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