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Rear window defogger relay
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sooptime
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Rear window defogger relay Reply with quote

Getting all these little issues resolved before putting spanky on the road. The rear defogger doesn't appear to work. Did a search and nothing I could find applies.

I checked the relay under the seat and it has 4 prongs, labelled a, b m and j (no 30, 85, 86, 87). Per the wiring diagram, I see that it needs to be grounded. Is "J" terminal ground (or 86)? It did not have a wire connected, other three were running to reg (with fuse), one to the rear and other I am guessing to switch. So I made a jumper and connected "J" to the mounting screw. Still doesn't defrost, I do however here a click back at the relay when the dash switch is toggled.

Looks like a standard relay could be used? What shuts off the defogger besides manually turning off the switch, as in an auto off mechanism?
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear window defogger relay Reply with quote

sooptime wrote:
Getting all these little issues resolved before putting spanky on the road. The rear defogger doesn't appear to work. Did a search and nothing I could find applies.

Still doesn't defrost, I do however here a click back at the relay when the dash switch is toggled.


This is because there's a break or several breaks in the defog grid. You need to ohm it out first, and see if it's whole (complete with no breaks in any wires). If it ohm's out as good, then it should work. Since the relay is clicking, there's power to it, and it sounds like the relay is working.

The reason you won't find much info on them, is because most don't work, due to the wires on the glass becoming broken. Those that don't have broken wires, are still be used.
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Tram
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Rear window defogger relay Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
sooptime wrote:
Getting all these little issues resolved before putting spanky on the road. The rear defogger doesn't appear to work. Did a search and nothing I could find applies.

Still doesn't defrost, I do however here a click back at the relay when the dash switch is toggled.


This is because there's a break or several breaks in the defog grid. You need to ohm it out first, and see if it's whole (complete with no breaks in any wires). If it ohm's out as good, then it should work. Since the relay is clicking, there's power to it, and it sounds like the relay is working.

The reason you won't find much info on them, is because most don't work, due to the wires on the glass becoming broken. Those that don't have broken wires, are still be used.


Could be that the grid isn't grounded to the car any longer- seen that a few times.
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sooptime
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The grid "looks" intact. Will check both the grid and the ground. Just guessing the ground is under the headliner where the wire exits the passenger side. I suppose if I measure one side to the other, I should get something. If portions of the grid were broken, wouldn't parts of it still work?

Not sure why the ground was missing from the relay (assuming "J" terminal was ground). No loose ground wire anywhere back there either.

Thanks guys.
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

0verzealoous interior window washing ect will ruin them I think. Mine looks pretty good, but does not work! Evil or Very Mad
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sooptime
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just checked it and the relay clicks when I turn the switch off but not on. I just wonder if the relay is correctly wired, given it was missing a ground. Maybe the PO was messing with it too.

Anyone know how the A,B,M and J markings on the relay relate to the 30, 85, 86, 87 terminals in the diagrams?
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use your VOM to check for continuity of the grid itself before you worry about power to it.
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two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

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sooptime
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
Use your VOM to check for continuity of the grid itself before you worry about power to it.


Disconnected wires at both ends and doesn't appear to be any resistance from one side to the other on any setting. Bah. I'll finish the squirter system then come back to this.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sooptime wrote:
Disconnected wires at both ends and doesn't appear to be any resistance from one side to the other on any setting.


You mean there in no continuity (infinite resistance) between the tabs, right?

This is the usual case and indicated either a break, or more likely, "evaporated" elements that are now effectively open.

You will still see the burnt-orange colored material, but this is NOT the actual resistive element, but rather some sort of primer to make it stick to the glass. So it looks fine from the outside, but is no longer functional.
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sooptime
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
sooptime wrote:
Disconnected wires at both ends and doesn't appear to be any resistance from one side to the other on any setting.


You mean there in no continuity (infinite resistance) between the tabs, right?

This is the usual case and indicated either a break, or more likely, "evaporated" elements that are now effectively open.

You will still see the burnt-orange colored material, but this is NOT the actual resistive element, but rather some sort of primer to make it stick to the glass. So it looks fine from the outside, but is no longer functional.


Too dark out at the moment to check, but thinking the "no longer functional" applies here.

Thanks Phil.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sooptime wrote:
Just checked it and the relay clicks when I turn the switch off but not on. I just wonder if the relay is correctly wired, given it was missing a ground. Maybe the PO was messing with it too.

Anyone know how the A,B,M and J markings on the relay relate to the 30, 85, 86, 87 terminals in the diagrams?


Page "E" of the electrical system of the brown Bentley. It's actually shown for a 71, but the defog is the same from 68 on.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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sooptime
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. Going to leave the defogger set up for the moment but will look at the Bentley electrical Bob for when I am motivated. Spent today taking care of the brake switch and wiring today.

All the best to you in 2014.
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