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MrPolak
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Joined: June 20, 2004
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Location: AG ,atnaltA
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David Raistrick
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Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 539
Location: Geneva, Florida
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 Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| kguarnotta wrote: |
| trying to follow this great thread - but lost you when you were describing the break-in period. Could you spell that out again? |
my bed-in procedure is typically - 10 hard stops from 60>30mph. After the last stop, you want to avoid pressing the brakes again (and effecting the transfer of brake material to the rotor) until they've cooled back down.
For me that means driving out to the dump, turning around, doing the stops, and coasting it down the driveway into the yard.
basically the idea is to get them good and hot, without burning anything up - to get a good transfer of pad material to the disk.
for a heavy car (like my 7000 lb truck...) a few 35-45 to 20 stops can do the trick.
lots of reading out there, and as many opinions as there are opinions... but. 
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=85&
Personal experience on and off the track (mini's, 3/4 ton trucks, porsches, and my bus) have shown a significant difference in brake feel before/after.
Particularly I've noticed that fresh pads like to pull and wander a bit for a while (...or after driving through 2 foot deep standing water... another pass to get things back up to snuff helps), and the bed-in process sorts that out quickly. Also tends to improve initial grab. |
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heymrpants
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Joined: January 29, 2011
Posts: 37
Location: Fargo, ND
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:44 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure what the manufacturer recommends for the break in period, but I just put a set of slotted and cross drilled EBC rotors with yellow stuff pads on my Subaru.
They recommend driving it normally for 500 miles and then doing the 60-0 hard stops. I've never heard of anybody breaking in with the hard stops right out of the box. |
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David Raistrick
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Joined: January 26, 2004
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Location: Geneva, Florida
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13280
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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every brake mechanic ever, will tell you first thing they do when the drive it out of the bay is a hard stop. I even mash the brakes and the gas at the same time, I like to make those rotors and pads instant close friends.
I even did the same with my new drums on my bus yesterday. second gear, gas it, stomp on the brake while still gassing it. My new drums are excellent. After all the problems people seem to have with their brakes (other than Old speed, which I have never heard one negative thing) I just decided all new orginal german stuff, and semi metallic shoes from Kymco would be good.
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flemcadiddlehopper
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Joined: December 05, 2011
Posts: 2332
Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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| Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Erik G wrote: |
every brake mechanic ever, will tell you first thing they do when the drive it out of the bay is a hard stop. I even mash the brakes and the gas at the same time, I like to make those rotors and pads instant close friends.
I even did the same with my new drums on my bus yesterday. second gear, gas it, stomp on the brake while still gassing it. My new drums are excellent. After all the problems people seem to have with their brakes (other than Old speed, which I have never heard one negative thing) I just decided all new orginal german stuff, and semi metallic shoes from Kymco would be good. |
Not so. Read the instructions that come with TRW pads. Moderate braking only for 500 miles.
All the brakes I install I seat them somewhat for the customer this way. Moderate braking from 50-30km/h 3 times, 60-40 3 times, 70-50 3 times all downhill if possible. Then try and drive for at least 5 blocks without using the brakes, and never heat them up crazy hot and come to a complete stop and hold your foot on the brake. The new pads and rotors will just cook.
Gordo.
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Erik G
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Location: Tejas!
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MrPolak
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Joined: June 20, 2004
Posts: 1337
Location: AG ,atnaltA
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Erik G wrote: |
| I don't know who TRW is, and I've never seen a pad or shoe say to stop moderately for 500 miles. Sounds like CYA to me |
http://www.trwaftermarket.com/Products/Disc-Brake-Systems/Brake-Pads/
Pad break in recommendations vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. All procedures are engineer-recommended forms of CYA which are legally approved for mass consumption.
I don't think a pad break-in procedure is in question here. The pads are functioning more than adequately in the dry. The question is wet performance.
Just trying to keep this on topic...  |
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flemcadiddlehopper
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Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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| Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed.
Gordo.
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flemcadiddlehopper
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Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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| Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| David Raistrick wrote: |
So a surprising update now that the rainy season is upon is here in Florida.
They suck! Once they get good and wet (5-10 miles of standing water) they're like having no front brakes at all. All I'm getting are my rear drums (which I can lock up if I stomp hard enough w/ the clutch in, but not lock the fronts).
Typically disks are -better- in the wet...so I'm confused.
Wonder if this is due to the lack of dust shield maybe? Lots of hotrod brake kits don't have dust shields....
Dunno. Sketchy as hell. 
Noticed it primarily yesterday coming home from work, then again today. (it's been rainy all week, but managed to miss my drives to/from work until yesterday). Driving in this morning (dry) was fine. Home tonight (wet) was iffy.
Hrmph |
Anything further on this? What solution did you come up with? What has the builder/supplier said about your predicament?
Gordo.
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David Raistrick
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Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 539
Location: Geneva, Florida
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| flemcadiddlehopper wrote: |
Anything further on this? What solution did you come up with? What has the builder/supplier said about your predicament?
Gordo. |
nothing good - yesterday I got surprised by a big shower, and had a repeat performance (step on the pedal, plenty of pressure but no response...stand on the pedal, lock the rears and start skewing sideways). Mostly different route, this time, too.
My email to Wilwood (asking about wet performance of the compounds, and pointing them to this thread) went unanswered, and Nate's comments in the thread haven't given any indication of others having the problem..... my tire/wheel package is as close to the spindle as possible (the 1/4" increase in track was good for me..now I don't rub)
I think I've got to park it for wet weather driving until I can fab up some backing plates to see if that will help.
It does seem to be a low-speed (30-50) problem and not a problem at interstate speeds (65-70), but I don't good data. The higher speed roads tend to drain better, so you're not plowing through standing water the same way.
One thing I just thought of - Nate typically sells these cross drilled. I'm not a fan of drilled rotors and ordered them undrilled......so that -could- be a difference. Nate, thoughts?
If any other brake vendors want me to compare their 14" package in the florida rain, I'd be happy to do it.
If anyone has already fabbed backing plates, or know of something close to start from, I'm open to ideas... |
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Erik G
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Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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I have front backing plates from a disc type 3 laying in my garage. They are your's for the shipping cost if you want them. If you want me to take pics, PM me. At the very least, it's something almost free to cut up and play with
I would be so unbelievably pissed if I went through the hassle and expense of a disc kit swap, only to have that or really any major issue. I think you are handling it (publically at least ) well
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runderwood
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Joined: July 17, 2007
Posts: 274
Location: near philadelphia, pa
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| Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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I recently installed the babystang brake kit on my panel. I've been driving with them for a few weeks and have no complaints. They definitely require less pedal pressure than my drums, but I thought it would have required less pressure than it does...  I wish the actual discs were bigger. I've driven it dry and in the rain, and I didn't sense that there was ANY brake fade in the rain. My drums had considerable fade in the rain, and the discs are a great improvement there. I also feel that with my drums, when I had to stop quick, I'd be standing on the pedal, and the more I got on the pedal, the more I felt them fade (or so it seemed). But with the discs, I feel that the more I get on the pedal, the more they grip.
So, nothing bad to say about them, except that I wish the rotor were larger...
I have no backing plates, and Nate's standard drilled rotors.
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David Raistrick
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Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 539
Location: Geneva, Florida
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| Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| runderwood wrote: |
| So, nothing bad to say about them, except that I wish the rotor were larger... |
Then you'd need larger wheels.  (and could -increase- pedal effort, too, btw, depending on how all the components match up). if you want to decrease that, add a booster.)
As for your rain driving - are we talking about 30+ minutes in heavy downpours that cause standing water (1-2 inches deep covering the road in patches, but the entire road surface covered somewhat all the time). typical for florida during the rainy season... or? could you characterize the rain driving a bit to compare?
thanks. |
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runderwood
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Joined: July 17, 2007
Posts: 274
Location: near philadelphia, pa
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| Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:43 am Post subject: |
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As far as driving in the rain... probably wasn't as heavy rain as you describe... but same non-highway driving - lets say 30-50mph. You are saying 1"-2" of standing water... that is a lot of water! Plowing thru 2" of standing water at speed... you must have water splashing several feet high right? Something just doesn't sound right about what you are experiencing.
BTW - I'm running 15" radars. I have tons of room for a larger disc...
I know it is a different brake setup, but I was driving my beetle last night in pouring rain - where roads were flooding - and it has discs on the front (solid - not drilled), and the brakes were totally fine... and everything was VERY wet. No backing plates on my beetle either.
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MrPolak
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Joined: June 20, 2004
Posts: 1337
Location: AG ,atnaltA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Are there any updates to brake issues in the rain? |
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keo808
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Joined: June 17, 2006
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| updates...X2 |
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MrPolak
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Posts: 1337
Location: AG ,atnaltA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I just ordered the Wagenwest babystang kit along with their master cylinder kit for my '64 deluxe. I will report my experience as I experience. Cheers. |
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ezcamper
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Joined: January 10, 2001
Posts: 897
Location: Atlantic Beach, FL
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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I have about 1000 miles on mine. I used a bay mc so you have to press a little harder than the 67 on mc would be. The work super good once heated up. No so good when first pulling out of the driveway.
I'm switching to stainless hoses in the front and will report back.
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MrPolak
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Just opened the package:
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