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Rear drum brake spacer mod
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flyindutchman
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Rear drum brake spacer mod Reply with quote

I had read that people were using "spacers" in the drum brakes to improve the contact between the shoe and drum. It seems that the shoes wear mostly on the top portion of the brake liner. So I lurked around and didn't find anything on what was used how this was accomplished and how much spacer was needed. I assume that this is where the "shim/spacer" was added?

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Does anybody have any experience with this mod?
I am only assuming that it will increase the efficiency of the stock setup, do you think this is a waist if time?
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rubbachicken
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have done this mod to almost every vanagon i look after, i use 9/16 ID shims bought from ace hardware, they usually have 2 thickness, i use the thicker ones.
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motelvw
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does that piece pull out of its hole to put the spacer in?

Been a while since I've been back there, but I know I need to do this.
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vers13
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome, first time I've read of this mod. Will be waiting on reply as to where to place the shims. Also, shouldn't braking improve slightly, being that you are engaging more of the surface area on the shoe's pad?
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're engaging more surface area but at the same pressure, so friction change would be very little. Will improve brake shoe life to wear it out evenly, though and perhaps reduce fade in extreme situations where one spot on shoe gets super hot. Good mod. Interested as well

DougM
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goffoz
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rubbachicken wrote:
i have done this mod to almost every vanagon i look after, i use 9/16 ID shims bought from ace hardware, they usually have 2 thickness, i use the thicker ones.

care to add a little more detail Confused 9/16th"x? Where do you install/what material..steel/Al./pic Question
I'd really appreciate safer braking Shocked
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Michael4104
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the Ace 9/16" spacer used for? Is it a washer?
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rubbachicken
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm sorry i am in israel at the moment, and my stock of stuff is at home, i've looked through my pictures to see if i have one, but nothing.
if i remember it's a 9/16, ID machine bushing i think it was, ace hardware and true value hardware have them loose, i do not remember the dimensions other than the ID, they have 2 different thicknesses, i bought both, and so far i have only used the thinker of the two.
more than that i am afraid i cannot answer.
do they make a difference, YES they do, they put more of the shoe in contact with the drum, increasing breaking performance, i did the job to lucy first before i did it to customers vans, and having looked in at the shoe wear after, i could clearly see the difference in the contact surface.
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rubbachicken is talking about these things, stocked by better hardware stores. I use 1 per lower pin. There is a thicker one too. They are not just ordinary washers as most washers are too big on the outside diameter.

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/fastene...c-9547.htm

thicker one I don't use:

http://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/fastene...c-9547.htm

Mark
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As usual - awesome, helpful specifics, Mark! I'll be looking at my FLHS today...

I assume you need 4 (1 under each pin, front & rear on both side of the van)?
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhaavers wrote:
As usual - awesome, helpful specifics, Mark! I'll be looking at my FLHS today...

I assume you need 4 (1 under each pin, front & rear on both side of the van)?

4 is typical, yes.
But you may want to observe the shoe wear after install.
If a shoe still wears at the top only, try the thicker washer.. if shoes between front and back show uneven wear try mixing.
(You should not have to mix, but it is an option.)

Also, check the backing plates.. in addition to all moving components.
I found my driver side has actually worn through!.. likely due to an improper spring install at some point in the van's life.
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msinabottle
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:01 am    Post subject: Pictures Installed? Reply with quote

I am very interested in this thread and this mod! Does anyone have any pictures of the spacers installed? Would the stresses and changes in wear patterns effect anything for the worse?

Now that I've learned how to bend metal line, I'm thinking of Winston's aging brake lines, and while I'm in there...

Best!
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Wellington
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall a previous thread, where the guy used adjusters from an early bus, no fabrication, slip right in and adjustable. Someone can search it.
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rubbachicken
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

come on guys this stuff is not rocket science Rolling Eyes

it's a $0.40 shim, the adjusters from bug/ bays would nee modification, as when they were used there was a metal tab to stop them spinning around on their own.

i can't see how it could possible make anything inside the drum worse, the only thing it is doing is putting MORE of the brake shoe, in contact with the drum.

it's time for you guys to go venture into the garage and make it happen.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shiminy crickets Laughing

I agree with rubberchix, get into the garage and get your hands dirty.
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ZsZ
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here in europe you can buy them in new.
https://www.tk-carparts.de/article/173/Lagerbock_fr_Bremsbacke.html

It is recommended to renew them as the originals are worn now.
Shimming below them should work for a cheap fix.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those machine bushings appear to be the same units used on lots of wheelbarrows, and thus the supplies of replacement axles/bearings/washers, so that might be a hint when looking in a generic hardware store.

Also, those lower pivot pins are notorious for getting frozen solid in their bores, so don't be surprised if they don't share your enthusiasm for this mod.
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furrylittleotter
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In case anyone would rather spend more to get the same thing Mcmaster Carr and Grainger both sell these:


http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-shims/=sneof1

I am about to change my shoes and turn my brand new warped drums and may play around in there a bit to try and get better contact if needed, when I do.

My plan: Turn drums, reassemble with new shoes, adjust. Drive a few hundred miles to "bed-in" everything.

Disassemble, inspect, grind pads if needed, adjust and possibly add the aforementioned washers, light coat of Blue machinist's layout dye on pad, drive, disassemble and inspect, grind more and adjust as needed.

I'm not an expert by any means but this seems like a fun plan to try. Open to suggestions.

Neil2
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atomatom
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:

Also, those lower pivot pins are notorious for getting frozen solid in their bores, so don't be surprised if they don't share your enthusiasm for this mod.


I got a true appreciation for this comment. Mine were not having any of it.

More tales from others here: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=508123&start=0

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atomatom
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So gurus - how do you get these buggers off without breaking your brakes? Heat? Serious whallops with a sledge hammer? Vice grips? Twisting? Pulling? Screaming and shouting? Buying a new backing plate?
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