Rear shock absorbers...again

[Lahti411]

I found a local parts dealer who is clearing their stock. There are some interesting shock absorbers and i was wondering if a Gabriel brands' part 81490 would fit these cars.

These are the shock absorbers i'm talking about:
http://gabriel.com/our-products/car-light-truck-van/pv-detailed-specs/?partnum=81490

This is what Ray has written on shoptalkforums about the rear shocks:

[hulken]

According to listing for this Gabriel shock absorber it should absolutely fit....

[raygreenwood]

Make sure these are not old stock. Look for the date of delivery. More than about 2-3 years on the shelf and the seals tend to go flat.

The KYB gas-a-justs are superb on the rear end. Bear in mind that the variants all had gas shock absorbers from the factory.

The KYB gas-ajust listed for teh front of the Ford econoline van (1/2 ton) are the exact part that were made by KYB for the rear of the type 4 cars. The only difference is the lack of a pair of side load bushings on the Econoline shocks. I simply use a stack of washers on each side of the bottom of each shock. Take a look at both and the minor differences will be apparent. The length, diameter and valving are identical. Ray

[Lahti411]

It seems to be impossible to get correct KYB shocks here in Finland -retailers just don't have tehm in stock and they are not willing to make special ordes (don't know why, maybe this is the last reminder of the good old Kekkosslovacia where client service didn't exist...)
My 4-door sedan has a pair of Gabriel gas shocks made for 411/412 at the moment, so that's why I was turning to that brand as they are available.
I'm asking if the Gabriel 81490 would fit as it has the same length of stroke and it's ment for the F-series trucks from 1980. The shocks you suggested were ment for Fords Econolines till 1979. There are some differences in pin and loop sizes between the other available Gabriel shock 81694. http://gabriel.com/our-products/car-light-truck-van/pv-detailed-specs/?partnum=81694
I cross referenced the Gabriel shocks with monroe's and there were some overlapping with part numbers and models they fit but i'm not sure what to buy... I already ordered 81694 shocks but i'm wondering if i could use the 81490 shcok too.
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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[raygreenwood]

Yes...for sure the KG5410....for 1/2 ton....and KG5406 ...for 3/4 ton for the front end of either trucks or vans. These are through about 1979-80. The later ones take KG5440...and I have no idea if the form and function is the same.

But...here is a KYB part # list. If you find any Ford F150.250, 350, 450 or Econoline series van...that lists either a KG5410 or KG5406 as fitting the front end....then you can use that vehicle as an asking point for most any brand of shock and it should bolt up and do well.

Here is a pretty good list to pick from:

http://www.jegs.com/pdfs/575-2010Cat.pdf

Ray

[Lahti411]

Thanks Ray. I believe the Gabriel 81490 shock should fit as it's ment for Ford Ranger 4X4. The shocks are cheap so i'm not loosing much if they won't fit.
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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[ClassicCamper]

What rear shock has the closest match to original (not NOS though)? I'm interested in getting a fairly decent shock that has little to no fabrication required to fit.

My current shock is soooo bouncy in rear, I wouldn't be surprised if its original!

[raygreenwood]

No...from the color that is not original. The wagons all had gas filled from the factory. The sedans did not. The KYB gas-adjust...high pressure gas...worked very well on all of the 411/412....both sedan and wagon

The KYB KG 5410...from the Ford Econoline E-150 1/2 ton van.... FRONT SHOCKS...are the exact part crossmatch as the original for the 411/412 rear.

They will need a stacck of washers for side spacers on the lower bolt eye...which is the only difference.

You can get them at rockauto for $18.96 each right now. DO NOT get the KYB Excel G or Gr-2...way too soft. Ray

[Lahti411]

I must say that one of the biggest changes in my cars handling was when i replaced the rear shocks with Ford Econoline front shocks.
I took the bottom bushing from the original shock and cut it to length to fill the gap which was left as the bottom loop is shorter than the original. You also may need to replace the original metric bolts with similar sized imperial bolts as the new bushing will be slightly oversized for the old bolt. Atleast in my car metric bolts caused some rattling. I also had to open the original bushing steel pipe to make teh imperial sized bolt to fit. But anyway the replacment was simple snd even with some very minor fabricating replacement took about two hours.
The results are awesome! With Audi cartridges in the front and Ford shocks in the rear the car looks stock but handles so much better. It's really enjoyable on old country roads -way better than my old Saab 99 which were praised for their handling back in the day.
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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[raygreenwood]

[titan3c]

Great information. My 411 still has the original rear shocks, and I've been considering replacing them. Haven't quite absorbed the washer stack reference yet. I'll read your posts again, and it will finally soak into my thick skull. Bob

[Lahti411]

You will see where you need the washers/bushing extensions immediately you get your new shock absorbers and compare them with the originals. The bottom loop in the Ford shock is shorter than in the original VW shock so you need to add something to keep the shock absorber centered -thats why you need to add washers or fabricate an bushing extensions.
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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[titan3c]

Ok, I get it now. Bob

[ClassicCamper]

Removed these rear shocks tonight:

Long story short, they were shot. Plus, there were many, many washers on the bottom to keep the bottom of the shock from moving. Not a great fit. I ordered the Ford (Econoline, I believe) KYB Gas-O-Matic front shocks - they come higly recommended. I'll keep you posted after install.

[ClassicCamper]

So I picked up the recommended KYB shocks for the rear and have a question. How do you open/expand the shock? Currently it looks like this :

I'm going to need more length to fit it in. The directions are beyond useless. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

[Lahti411]

Gas chocks stay at their middle position and only shorten/extend under heavy load (especially these as they are very heavy duty).
Jack the rear trailing arm up untill you can push the shock inside the rear spring from the opening under the trailing arm. Then lift the shock by hand until you can push the top pin through its attaching point. Now screw in the top securing nut loosely. Adjust the position of the trailing arm by the jack until you can push the lower bolt through the trailing arm and chock absorbers bottom loop.
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My cars: 1972 VW 411 Variant; 1973 VW 412 4d sedan

[raygreenwood]

Wait.....the gas a justs are high pressure gas. They used to come from the factory.....compressed to their shortest length.....strapped with twine to keep them there. This was to keep the nitrogen infused fluid in the lower chamber from easily bypassing......and also to do as Lahti noted......they start max compressed and then extend.

I have noticed that KYB is no longer strapping shocks down compressed for storage. ....so they have probably made some changes to the seal system.

As Lahti411 noted......you can put a block of wood on the floor between your feet to keep the stud from slipping off and getting damaged.......and put the top stud against the wood......press down on the lower bolt eye to compress the shock as far as you can, then release it.
you can also help it along by installing the two top washers and a nutt for the moment and pull the shock open.

Now this is very important

.....if you have the car jacked up......and you need to have it on jack stands. ....and the wheel off .....and the trailing arm is hanging in mid air.......and the trailing arm is NOT supported by a jack out near the end.....and you can visually see that the coil spring is not fully seated flat against the trailing arm
.........you will not be able to install the shock and it will not be long enough and you will notice that trying to.....will make the body of the shock press against the springs and will dent the shock body. If that happens....the shock will be shot.

You need to put a small floor jack or bottle jack underneath the trailing arm right behind the brake backing plate ......and slowly and carefully jack the trailing arm upward until the spring is nearly seated flat and the coil spring is compressed to near normal.

Here is the next problem....if the car is not high enough off the ground.....you will not be able to get the extended shock underneath the trailing arm to get it into the coil spring from underneath.

So....you will have to quickly compress the shock and insert it from underneath and let it re extend.

As you jack up the trailing arm....keep an eye on the body and jack stand point. You will notice the car at some point keeps trying to lift. Take it slow and it will resettle as the spring slowly compresses.

Before you insert the shock into the bore in the trailing arm and through the coil spring....make sure you have first dished washer installed....and the first rubber bushing.

If you get the spring over compressed....dont worry. Insert the shock....let it extend....insert the stud into the body hole.

Carefully block the shock in place with a tool or piece of scrap wood. Then get in the car and put the top rubber bushing and washer over the stud and one of the nuts....to keep it in place but leave it loose for the moment.

Get out of the car.....and either push the bottom of the shock upward or lower the trailing arm slightly...so you can use a screwdriver or steel rod through the eye to lever the the shock upward and align the hole to get the bolt through.
I put the lower side washers on before I start this. Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks guys, I'm still a little unclear as to how to 'free' the shock so it extends. OR do I leave it at current length and install?

Yes, I too am used to the KYB's coming wrapped with a flat strap, which you just cut, and bammm - shock extends. I presume that I DO NOT loosen that nut on the base of the top mount for this to extend??

Sorry a little slow on the uptake, I'm still hazy how to make shock lengthen out of the box and prior to install. The rest of the instructions you provided are perfect. Getting ready to tackle this within the hour.

Thanks, -Ron

[raygreenwood]

What Lahti411 was explaining. ....is that you must add energy into the shock....meaning to work it.....compress it.....to get the nitrogen to expand. I can only surmise that KYB....kept the old shocks in a state of compression with the strap...so you would not have to work it to get the nitrogen energized.

The only problem I can see with not getting the shock to expand to full length before installing it...is that it will be very difficult if not impossible. ...to get the shock to expand to full length once its inside of the spring. There is just nothing to grasp on the shock through the spring. The ability to compress the shock to a shorter length and insert it into the bore in the trailing arm and then have it extend to full length is instrumental for installation.

Yes take the nut off the top of the stud. It does not belong there. It goes on the top after the shock is installed and all the bushings are in place.

To activate the shock compress it all the way down by placing the top stud on a block of wood so you dont damage the threads....and push downward with your weight until the shock is fully compressed. Then release it. Repeat if necessary.
Ray

[ClassicCamper]

Thanks Ray, on it. That makes sense. So just that I'm sure, the large nut painted gray on the top of the shock in the photo is to be removed?

Thanks again.