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Sears DieHard Platinum Group 65 Users?
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Sears DieHard Platinum Group 65 Users? Reply with quote

Hi all.

I see BillM has installed one under/behind the driver seat.

Sears link: http://www.sears.com/diehard-platinum-automotive-b...ockType=G1

It's AGM, and listed as "Overall Type: Deep-cycle".

Any other user input on this battery (quality, longevity under reasonable use, fitament) would be welcome!

Neil.
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nocreditnodebt
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DHP's are rebadged Odysseys which still have good reputations. Hopefully they do not follow Optima's lead by building a good reputation then cutting corners for maximum profit.

As with all lead acid batteries, Flooded, AGM and GEL, not discharging too much, or leaving it discharged for too long, followed by a complete full recharge will yield good life. Lead acid Batteries do not like resting in a partially charged state, The lower and the longer they sit there the more capacity is lost.

There is a common misconception that the alternator quickly and fully recharges a battery in relatively short drives. Perhaps recharging upto the 80% level is OK with an alternator, if the wiring is adequate, but from 80% to 100% takes forever.

By all means utilize the alternator to help recharge, but use a grid powered charger after an outing to insure a full recharge, best battery performance and longevity.

Some batteries certainly handle abuse better than others. Problem is that few know when they are abusing their batteries by chronic undercharging. Voltage readings right after driving are not an accurate method of determining state of charge due to surface charge, yet far too many read the surface charge and declare the battery fully charged when it is far from.

An Automatic charger plugged in after each significant discharge is theeasiest way to know that you are starting the next outing with a battery above the 90% level. A long drive is no guarantee, and a short drive is a joke.
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shepherdsond
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two DHP's mounted in the battery boxes (the starter battery is behind the Passenger side rear lights). I have my passenger side battery mounted on its side and the cover fits fine. I mounted the other right side up but removed the battery box lid so it's just covered by carpet.

I have had them for about 4 months, they work fine so far but as nocreditnodept says they do not reach full charge with the alternator. My alternator (Suby 2.2) never gets above 13.9v which is not high enough. I have a built in 120v 3 stage charger that I plug in every so often and after trips. The best solution that I have come accross would be a 12v 3 stage charger which will take the alternator voltage and step it up to the required amount - they are quite expensive though and I have not read any reports of people using them.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The points on charging are well taken. The my '81 alternator is 90 amp and works, but I haven't measured how many volts it puts out. I usually carry a smart charger when traveling.

Apples to oranges, but locally, a Trojan deep cycle SCS225 flooded cell group 31 http://www.trojanbattery.com/Products/SCS22512V.aspx is less than an a DH Platinum "Marine" AGM Group 31 http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_028501310...eriesmv=rr But that makes sense given the difference in tech. I don't mind filling a battery once in a while, but am curious of off-gassing with battery under back seat. Likely nothing to worry about.

Neil.

edit: added links
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climberjohn
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nocredit,

I appreciate your expertise on charging systems. With your encouragement, I just bought a 45 amp Iota three stage charger. It should arrive any day now, and I look forward to firing it up and getting a proper charge on my batteries.

I had never been too excited about the Yandina, and suspected from day one it was not getting adequate juice to the batteries from relatively short drives.

The Iota should so that nicely, thanks for the idea.

-CJ
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nocreditnodebt
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Climberjohn,

Thanx.

I wouldn't blame the Yandina for poor aux battery recharging unless it has a significant voltage drop across the unit itself. If this is the case the unit would be warm or hot to the touch.

I'm not sure of the wire gauge between you alternator and engine battery, but huge improvements can be made in this area, but will only be effective when the battery is under ~80% charged.

A fully charged engine battery also can impede the current making it into the aux battery. Using thick cables between engine battery, Yandina, and aux battery will mitigate this as then the voltage regulator sees more of an average voltage of both batteries rather than mostly just the starting battery.

Once again these extra steps only really help when the batteries are below 80%, and they do make the alternator work harder, which heats it up more, reducing its performance and lifespan. So the effort and expense might not be worth it, especially if you can just plug in and do not require maximum recharge while driving spot to spot with heavily depleted aux battery(s)
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msinabottle
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:43 pm    Post subject: Thicker Cable Reply with quote

The Yandina needs juice to allocate it. I did a lot to pump more current into Winston's system by building and installing a thicker cable from the alternator to the starter. I can drive Winston over a relatively short distance and find myself pretty topped off! It's an easy mod.

You can buy a heavier gauge cable from Van Cafe that'll work on a standard set-up. I have a reduction-gear starter on Winston, so I had to measure and make my own. You can look here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6008019&highlight=solder+flux#6008019

Best!
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the tips people.

The plan will likely be to install a deep cycle under the rear seat. I'd use a large + cable and if possible, would upgrade the Jetta + cable between alternator and starter stud. This battery would be on it's own circuit.

Neil.
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1988 Westy To Be Named! :^)

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://sites.google.com/site/t2t3vaggasengineswaps/home

My Air Cooled Vanagon to 15 Jetta ABA swap pages:
https://sites.google.com/site/tubaneil2/15degreeengineconversion
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BillM
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had the DieHard under my drivers seat since this
past summer. I have been very happy with it so far. I
do not have any voltage guages on it yet as I plan to
install a solar set up and will use a charge controller
with a digital read out to monitor the battery.
I also have a yandina installed with a Promariner
battery charger. It's not a dual battery like GoWesty
sells but a single battery charger. It does have the ability
to set different charge profiles and I have it set up for
an AGM battery. My yandina has a wire that is used to
seperate the batteries when the voltage gets to high and
this is what protects my starting battery from being
over charged by the Promariner charger. So far it has all
worked out really well. I don't know if the newer Yandinas
still have that optional wire to disconnect the batteries.
For me using the space under the rear seat was not an
option as my propex,rear heater,ECU,knock control,etc..
are already taking up that space.
If I didn't have all that stuff under the rear seat I would
definitely consider using that space for batteries. The wire
run to the alternator would be shorter and a much larger
battery could be installed. I also like the option of putting
a large battery under the van like Aleric and Peace Vans
has done on the pass side. This option helps balance out
the Westy lean and may help improve vehicle handling.
You would be surpired at how unbalanced a Westy really
is. I have four scales that are used to for race cars and
after sliding them under my tires wish I had opted for
a weekender instead of a Westy. Just something to
consider while your looking for a place to install your
batteries.
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slo356
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know which is harder...selecting tires or batteries for Vanagons.

Looking at a Sears AGM batteries. Either a Group 65 or 34 and either a Platinum or Die Hard Gold.

PROBLEM with SEARS information/data/specifications is that they are incomplete (at least on-line). They show the Platinum as a "Maintenance Free" type and not a DEEP CYCLE type. The D.H. Gold shows as a deep cycle rather than a starting battery. This seems contrary to what I read on the numerous Forum threads.

QUESTION: If the Die Hard Gold AGM is in fact deep cycle, then does it require the step up to 14.2+ voltage charge from the alternator? What discharge percentage can it withstand without damage? Can it tolerate the voltage drain of lights, stereo, refrig. etc.?

Did my research to SEARS Auto trip and they recommend the D.H. Gold over the Platinum as they are experiencing a lot fewer returns and it continues to be built in USA. They told me the D.H. Gold is multi-purpose and multi-climate.

Plan to mount sideways with the Yandina doing the disconnect when engine is off.
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