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5 Speed Tranny for type 1 engine?
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modok
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, sounds good Wink

The OP has a rail with only a windshield, that's a little different
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jl_1303
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
You can play with the numbers using my Excel spreadsheet.

http://www.glenn-ring.com/tech/tranny_calc.xls

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Glenn,
It appears that your 4th and 5th are a bit far apart, how does it drive like?
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It drives great. 5th is for cruising, but i can shift into 5th @ 40mph and the engine has enough torque to pull itself up a steep hill without having to downshift.

As far as flatout acceleration, I can push 4th to 110mph and then shift into 5th.

I'm very happy with the gear ratios for the engine I have.
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andy198712
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone tried dropping in the 5th gear from empi? Apparently it's easy!....
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Alstrup wrote:
I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andy198712 wrote:
Anyone tried dropping in the 5th gear from empi? Apparently it's easy!....

Huh?
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andy198712
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
andy198712 wrote:
Anyone tried dropping in the 5th gear from empi? Apparently it's easy!....

Huh?


i was hoping someone would know.... i popped over a mates a while back and he had a tranny on the worktop and said he'd just fitted a 5th gear, said he buys it direct from EMPI and it drops in.... how or what i do not know but i was in a hurry and didnt have time to question further.... anyone heard of this before?
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Stripped66
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andy198712 wrote:
... anyone heard of this before?


It's classified under BS.
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66brm wrote:
Bodacious wrote:
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor.

I don't think electrickery works that way
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andy198712
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stripped66 wrote:
andy198712 wrote:
... anyone heard of this before?


It's classified under BS.


i was dubious but had no reason to doubt the guy
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I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least.
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coolrydes Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/quote]
More than some mods... don't forget grafting in the Porsche shifter..[/quote]
Not true, it is one way of doing this swap.

[/quote]
And when you're all done, you have a used transmission with gears optimized for a 6 cylinder engine.......[/quote]

Lets see we build our engines larger, the gene berg set up still uses all the VW stuff that is only made to handle around 90hp max unless you buy the built stuff then your good for 150hp max. With the "used" Porsche box it will handle 300hp stock, and I can say from experiance that with todays higher freeway speeds that it keeps fan speed optimum 75mph at around 300 rpms.

[/quote]
Yes, the Berg 5 costs more but you will have a brand new tranny with gears optimized for YOUR specific engine.[/quote]

Not a new trans at all, just a weak 5th gear in a type one trans that you'll still have to do mods to get to fit. I've got a 250hp turbo motor bolted up to my 915 trnas and NO WORRIES!!! JUST SAYIN Twisted Evil
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolrydes wrote:
Not a new trans at all, just a weak 5th gear in a type one trans that you'll still have to do mods to get to fit. I've got a 250hp turbo motor bolted up to my 915 trnas and NO WORRIES!!! JUST SAYIN Twisted Evil

I have a 200hp engine bolted to a Berg 5. The one piece mainshaft isn't needed in my application.

Rhino case is a inexpensive upgrade, along with HD pinion bearing retainer.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


And it is brand new if you do a "real" rebuild and replace the stock 4 speed gears with new gears picked to work with YOUR engine, not a 2.7l Porsche had has barely more than my 4 cylinder.

All I had to do is clearance the right torsion tube a bit and it bolted right in.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"NEW" I don't think so it's a rebuild with some new parts. You even say
brand new if you do a "real" rebuild and replace the stock 4 speed gears with new gears picked.
Besides that fancy side cover what else is used inside. What kind of motor do you have that puts out 200hp? Because I have heard of the berg 5 speed breaking under 150hp. How about some specs on that 200hp engine? And have you ever really pushed that Berg (burn outs, racing, etc..)?
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All specs are in my signature.

New VWB Rhino case
New 3rd gear
New 4th gear
New 5th gear
New syncros
New Klinkinberg ring and pinion
New hardened forks
New shift rods
New bearings
New intermediate housing
New nose cone
New HD pinion retainer
Rebuilt ZF LSD including new 904GT clutch discs

I bet there's a few "used" parts in it.

Yes, i've done a few burnouts. They're a lot of fun when both wheels are trying to hookup.

So... what does a used 915 cost these days?
What does it cost to install, including all fabrication and additional parts.
What are the gear ratios?
What does it cost to change them... parts and labor?

Lets look dollar to dollar and see what you wind up with.
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Jon65
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andy198712 wrote:
Anyone tried dropping in the 5th gear from empi? Apparently it's easy!....


You don't think he meant the 3.88 ring and pinion that you can install like the one on this page?
http://www.empius.com/vwcatalog/2011/146.html
But, this isn't a "5th gear."
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andy198712
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jon65 wrote:
andy198712 wrote:
Anyone tried dropping in the 5th gear from empi? Apparently it's easy!....


You don't think he meant the 3.88 ring and pinion that you can install like the one on this page?
http://www.empius.com/vwcatalog/2011/146.html
But, this isn't a "5th gear."


could well have been as i cant find anything on a "empi 5 speed:
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I like 5,5inchers in the rear at least.
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subwayaz
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm having a 1915 built and this made for some very interesting reading about Trans replacement when the time comes which I presume will be fairly soon. Thanks Gentlemen for the education
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey the day a 2180 makes 200hp without a turbo or NOS is a day I'll stand corrected. Of corse your Berg 5 speed will hold up to the 140hp that 2180 makes and the most likely 205/60/15 tires traction you have.

So price wise you can get everything you need including 911 shifter, shift rod and 915 trans, plus all the needed conversion parts and having Mendeola do the bellhousing conversion work for around $5600 and you have a bone stock 915 that will take a "REAL" 300hp .

How much was that Berg, shifter and everything you need to install that one again?

All I'm saying, is that if your going to push serious horse power your going to need something better then a rebuilt and converted type 1 transaxle. I think we here at Mendeola Transaxles after being in the Transaxle biz for 35 years might have an idea what is what....
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modok
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolrydes wrote:
"NEW" I don't think so it's a rebuild with some new parts. You even say
brand new if you do a "real" rebuild and replace the stock 4 speed gears with new gears picked.
Besides that fancy side cover what else is used inside. What kind of motor do you have that puts out 200hp? Because I have heard of the berg 5 speed breaking under 150hp. How about some specs on that 200hp engine? And have you ever really pushed that Berg (burn outs, racing, etc..)?


If a regular SSC trans can handle 200 HP then why can't a berg 5? Laughing
The Bergs I think can IMPROVE on how vw built it, they have proven this over the decades

some people could screw up a wet dream
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best way to save weak gear box...skinny tires with hard rubber. That's how I can run my 12:1 2332 with Comp Eiliminators and 48IDFs in my buggy. Can't hurt nuthin if you can't get grip.... Laughing

I tried the .82 4th/ 3.88 combo in my buggy. The car wouldn't pull itself out of a pile of poop uless I was doing over 50mph. And that was with an honest 200+hp Worked good on The Flats, but I wasn't shifting out of 3rd till 111mph.

brad
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

modok wrote:
coolrydes wrote:
"NEW" I don't think so it's a rebuild with some new parts. You even say
brand new if you do a "real" rebuild and replace the stock 4 speed gears with new gears picked.
Besides that fancy side cover what else is used inside. What kind of motor do you have that puts out 200hp? Because I have heard of the berg 5 speed breaking under 150hp. How about some specs on that 200hp engine? And have you ever really pushed that Berg (burn outs, racing, etc..)?


If a regular SSC trans can handle 200 HP then why can't a berg 5? Laughing
The Bergs I think can IMPROVE on how vw built it, they have proven this over the decades

some people could screw up a wet dream

Modoc,
What do you mean "SSC" trans. And what motor?

As far as the Berg's knowing transaxle, I think Mike Mendeola has a slightly better and he actually has proven it over decades. I'm not saying the late Gene Berg does not know anything, he always had a lot to say about everything as those of us who knew him know. But the berg 5 speed was only for a better freeway speed in a geared trans.. The extra load on the bearings and the placement of 5th gear was a patch to fix the rpm issues at best. Gene Berg came out with a lot of nice parts that were needed for high performance Vw thru the years for sure, but the gear centers on the type one and the contact area and width of type 1 gears will not handle a true 200+hp.. It simply exceeds the mechanical limits of a type 1 trans.. It does not mater how much you do inside or out side of these Transaxles, they were never designed to take that much hp, where the Porsche 915 trans was stock.

Now about type one normally aspirated engine that somehow make 200+hp without power adders. I think Modoc may have hit the nail on the head when he said "wet dream". Seriously guys, this is not show car talk and claims I actually know what these engine can make.. Even if I did not Hot VW publishes tHe Dyno comp every year where the top engine builders compete on the same Dyno, and they barely break 200hp with full race 2276's and 2332's with Ida's .. So lets be serious about "TRUE" hp numbers not fantasy numbers. I've been building engines for over 20 years so I have a clue of true numbers.

Just sayin
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but what about these new spark plugs that addd oh so much more power???
I agree with mr cool, hp #'s are thrown around hear like donuts at a sherriff's convention. but as to how much the vw type 1 trans will handle is very subjective,as in tires,clutch,driver,weight,motor,road,trans condition,who built it and last but not least, how long does it have to work to be "handling"the 200 hp.? a week? a month?3 months?and in what capisity? I have no doubt that the type 1 trans will work just fine with a 500 hp motor.........if your only using 1/4 of the avaliable power&torque.kinda like skinys on the rear work just fine..... till you stab it.
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