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5 Speed Tranny for type 1 engine?
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Bruce
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolrydes wrote:

So price wise you can get everything you need including 911 shifter, shift rod and 915 trans, plus all the needed conversion parts and having Mendeola do the bellhousing conversion work for around $5600 and you have a bone stock 915 that will take a "REAL" 300hp .
But then you'd be stuck with a crappy shifting Porsche trans due to the original Porsche design synchros that can't be speed shifted like a VW.
coolrydes wrote:
How much was that Berg, shifter and everything you need to install that one again?
About 2 grand less than the Porsche gearbox.
coolrydes wrote:
All I'm saying, is that if your going to push serious horse power your going to need something better then a rebuilt and converted type 1 transaxle. I think we here at Mendeola Transaxles after being in the Transaxle biz for 35 years might have an idea what is what....

coolrydes wrote:

What do you mean "SSC" trans. Porsche 915 trans was stock.

For someone claiming to be part of 35 years in the transaxle business, you should at least learn VW lingo 101. SSC = Single Side Cover. It refers to 73 and later IRS trans cases.
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steelvisions
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay folks, time for the dummy to chime in. I'm wanting to build my 69 Baja to take from Colorado Springs to Southern Cal, up highway one, and back to Colorado with a stop in Moab. FIRST THINGS FIRST, I want to run 33 x 13.5" Mickey T's in the back. So, I need to find a great engine / tranny combo that will fit the bill of A.) A descent package at highway speeds of no more than 75 mph, while still being able to enjoy a Sunday outing on ATV trails here in Colorado. I'm not looking to take the trails at more than 30 mph, but I do want durability. I know that the taller tire takes away my low end torque, I'm hoping to find that good combo of VW ENGINE / TRANNY, I don't want to put in Subaru or Corvair engine or tranny. Please let me know what you think! I am aware that I am talking some money to put this together, so give me your best suggestions PLEASE!
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran the 19.5x33 mickey's on my bug with 1874,2028,2332. the 388 with .82 4th is a bit much for small motors,the .93 4th was ok but not perfect. I also ran 31.5 with that gear and it was nice.then went to a 4.12 gear, it was good for the most part but if you go back down in tire size you keep trying to find 5th gear. it knda depends on your motor&your driving style.
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modok
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A local eh? small world.
You didn't say if the thing is swing or IRS, but I'll assume it is IRS, because you'd be nuts to want 33 tires otherwise Shocked

The single side cover trans(3.88 r&p) with 1.48 third and 1.12 fourth would be about right IMO, this being the simplest way to achieve the strength and gear ratios you need. I'm not a fan of splicing a bus trans into it but that is also what a lot of folks do, but not me nor Jay. You met Jay Stewart yet?
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steelvisions
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been considering a 1914 motor with dual carbs, but have no clue on the tranny. Should I consider like a street comp or pro comp type? I'm so new to this game that I just don't know. My driving style is pretty simple, I want to get up to speed, and stay at speed. I don't need to have a quick car, so I don't need too much power for getting up to speed. But I think I probably need more power to stay at speed. I'm not the kind of person to tear my stuff up. So, spinning tires on pavement, never. On very loose substrate, probably. That said, however, I do need to be able to climb steep short hills from a really slow speed or even stopped, at times. Not looking to rock crawl, but follow a very gutsy 72 year old lady on her atv. Kindof a family outing vehicle with a not to gutsy guy driving it. If I need to really go steep, I'll take my Bronco. You get the picture.
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steelvisions
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Glenn, nice to meet you! I live in the Springs, by Pete field. More Galley and Murray. I havent really met anyone in town that knows too much about VW's, I'm kinda going this alone. Sounds like you know what your talking about for sure! Yes, IRS on this one!
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With 33" tires I'd build at least a 2110 engine. Plenty enough HP to play around on the trails and durable enough to make a 1000 mile trip. For mild off-roading and city you could get by with a 4.86 R&P gear in type 1 transaxle. For heavy duty off road use spend the money for a built Bus gearbox. Look through the "Transmissions For Dummies" stickey in the HBB Off-Road forum.
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modok
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, good. IRS is the way to go.


If it were me, I'd want to put a stroker engine in it and stick with the bug trans. With a big engine and close ratio gears you can keep the rpms down and and in the sweet spot have a nice relaxing drive through the mountain roads. The problem with the big tires and the bug trans is first and second gear get rather HIGH, this is OK if your engine has lots of torque. If first and second gear need to be lower then you pretty much HAVE to go to a bus trans.

Hard to decide which is best, I probably like the big engine because engines are my deal Wink
Jay Stewart is only a handful of miles east of you(by dragon man), and he has built a thousand transmissions I bet. I'll PM you his phone number.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolrydes wrote:
Hey the day a 2180 makes 200hp without a turbo or NOS is a day I'll stand corrected.
..


Here is a 1603 NA that makes 195hp


Link



and a 1915 that makes 24ohp

Link

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steelvisions
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Mark, very valuable info, I appreciate it!
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theastronaut
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Tucker made a good point about hp, clutch, driver, and other variables. I think VW trans are tougher than most people give them credit for, and that a lot of guys could break a crow bar in a sand box.

My dead stock 6-volt '64 trans with only stock mounts and no engine brace has done atleast 30 drag starts (2.100 60') and a ton of flat-shifting into second and third and is still going strong with no complaints. Has 147k miles on it and it shifts as smooth as the day it was new. Engine makes about 115 tq and has a Kennedy stage 1 pressure plate.

I know it's not stressing the trans anywhere near as much as the 200 hp engines that others have but it's a much weaker 6-volt/4.37 R&P instead of a later/stronger trans with better mounts, mid mounts, and engine/frame braces. It surprised me how well it's taken the beating I've given it over the last 60k miles with a larger than stock engine.

I took the engine out after 10k miles on the new Daiken disc and Kennedy stage 1 and the clutch still had ink stamps visible on the face of the lining. At 50k miles the lining still had marks from being ground flat at the factory and the pressure plate surface still looked new. We also own a '97 S10 SS with 200k miles with the original clutch still in it. A lot of how "weak" VW transaxles are has to do with how abusive the driver is. After seeing how well the stock trans is holding up, I'm not worried about tearing up a built trans once I get my 2276 finished.
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steelvisions
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The Astronaut" makes a very solid point, and one that rings home. I was once told by a veteran VW mechanic that VW trannies LOVE to be run hard, just not when letting out the clutch. Once the clutch is out, dog it all you want and it will hold up. Truth be told, I (when I was playing with this stuff before) never have had a tranny problem. I try my best to take care of my equipment, but one never knows. Technology changes, so I just don't know if something out there is better than original for my needs. Oh, and yes, I do know personally what you mean about certain people breaking a crow bar in a sand box. Sadly, I have seen it way to many times. Cool
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modok
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not all are created equal.
As time went on VW fixed most of the weak links, the late 70's "002" single side cover bug trans is far stronger than earlier models.

It is the same with the bus trans also.
It is possible to build a very strong gear box using no aftermarket parts. Such as the one I need to pick up from Jay (ahem, when I get around to it) it is a 5 rib bus trans with a vanagon syncro locking differential. Probably the only one in the world. Very Happy You don't have to go to cali for a strong box Wink
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coolrydes Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tncsparky wrote:
coolrydes wrote:
Hey the day a 2180 makes 200hp without a turbo or NOS is a day I'll stand corrected.
..


Here is a 1603 NA that makes 195hp


Link



and a 1915 that makes 24ohp

Link


Whoever is running that dyno needs to read the set up manual. I have a 3000hp chassis dyno and I can set it up to show a stock 36hp engine making 100hp. Ill say both engines sounded good, however the jetting or float leve
May have been off on the first engine because you could see a few flat spots on the graph late in the pull. It must be the spark
Plugs making that extra 100 hp or maybe just the set up.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolrydes wrote:
Whoever is running that dyno needs to read the set up manual. I have a 3000hp chassis dyno and I can set it up to show a stock 36hp engine making 100hp. Ill say both engines sounded good, however the jetting or float leve
May have been off on the first engine because you could see a few flat spots on the graph late in the pull. It must be the spark
Plugs making that extra 100 hp or maybe just the set up.


Those engines both make the claimed hp. Look up JPM, it's not dyno operator error. 11.58 in the 1/4 miles tells me it's making all 190 hp.



Description on youtube:

Johannes Persson's best 1/4 mile run at BugRun 2008. Stock crank, rods and 40x35mm vales in stock VW cast heads.
Dynoed 195hp at 7700 rpm. IDA carbs.
730 kg car (1610 pounds)



Link





If that's unbelievable, how about Jake Raby's 1493cc making 186 hp.



Link

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Last edited by theastronaut on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Type 5 Joe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coolrydes.... Come on out to Central Oregon, I'll take you for a ride in a 227 H.P. VW (at 3000 ft elevation) that is NA.

I'll also be glad to demonstrate a built VW gearbox (all OEM gears other than 3rd & 4th & Diff) that can take the abuse.

Bring an extra pair of panties.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well type 5 we all know about the " altitude" of you guys in Oregon. We down here in So-Cal (at sea level) know how much actual hp is possible from a daily driver level engines that will last more then a pass or two down the 1/4 mile. I have a better idea, send one of those fire breathing 200+hp 1914s down here to a honest dyno and let's see the hp numbers. In fact if you sign a contract that you'll take the engine back if it does not pull the number you claim I'll hand you cash. My request, ill take one of those 300 hp normally asperated 2L engines. By the way my street car has a turbo 2165 injected dry sumped crank fire pump gas with 15psi engine and I am putting out over 200real hp. If f you want a ride in a real hp machine my pass door is always open.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:

I have a 200hp engine bolted to a Berg 5. The one piece mainshaft isn't needed in my application.

Rhino case is a inexpensive upgrade, along with HD pinion bearing retainer.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




why is the rhino case an "upgrade" compared to the stock IRS case?

i thought the rhino cases use the old 4 bolt retainer? they make a HD version of that also?
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Type 5 Joe
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like someone is sad because they can't make power without a turbo... Boo Hoo....

I think once you put in 30 years of building VW's like myself...you might have a clue.

Then again, some people just should take up fishing.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pupjoint wrote:

why is the rhino case an "upgrade" compared to the stock IRS case?
i thought the rhino cases use the old 4 bolt retainer? they make a HD version of that also?


That's a good question, pupjoint, and I'd like to hear the answers of those more knowledgable as well. I was told by someone (who I consider very knowledgable- he rebuilds trannies as well as ZF's) that the late model single side cover case is the strongest, as well as having the later retainer. The extra webbing on the rhino trans case is at the top, which is where they never break in rear wheel drive configuration.
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