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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jsturtlebuggy wrote: |
Show a picture of a 1970 Bug trans case that has no drain plug in differential area.
I really like to see one. |
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the trans cases that don't have the drain plug under the forward gear chamber, not the diff. 1970 is the first year where there was only one drain plug, under the diff.
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Type 5 Joe
Banned
Joined: January 18, 2003
Posts: 1795
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Correct... I stand corrected. |
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ALB
Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008
Posts: 3483
Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| coolrydes wrote: |
| modok wrote: |
| coolrydes wrote: |
"NEW" I don't think so it's a rebuild with some new parts. You even say
brand new if you do a "real" rebuild and replace the stock 4 speed gears with new gears picked.
Besides that fancy side cover what else is used inside. What kind of motor do you have that puts out 200hp? Because I have heard of the berg 5 speed breaking under 150hp. How about some specs on that 200hp engine? And have you ever really pushed that Berg (burn outs, racing, etc..)? |
If a regular SSC trans can handle 200 HP then why can't a berg 5? 
The Bergs I think can IMPROVE on how vw built it, they have proven this over the decades
some people could screw up a wet dream |
Modoc,
What do you mean "SSC" trans. And what motor?
As far as the Berg's knowing transaxle, I think Mike Mendeola has a slightly better and he actually has proven it over decades. I'm not saying the late Gene Berg does not know anything, he always had a lot to say about everything as those of us who knew him know. But the berg 5 speed was only for a better freeway speed in a geared trans.. The extra load on the bearings and the placement of 5th gear was a patch to fix the rpm issues at best. Gene Berg came out with a lot of nice parts that were needed for high performance Vw thru the years for sure, but the gear centers on the type one and the contact area and width of type 1 gears will not handle a true 200+hp.. It simply exceeds the mechanical limits of a type 1 trans.. It does not mater how much you do inside or out side of these Transaxles, they were never designed to take that much hp, where the Porsche 915 trans was stock.
Now about type one normally aspirated engine that somehow make 200+hp without power adders. I think Modoc may have hit the nail on the head when he said "wet dream". Seriously guys, this is not show car talk and claims I actually know what these engine can make.. Even if I did not Hot VW publishes tHe Dyno comp every year where the top engine builders compete on the same Dyno, and they barely break 200hp with full race 2276's and 2332's with Ida's .. So lets be serious about "TRUE" hp numbers not fantasy numbers. I've been building engines for over 20 years so I have a clue of true numbers.
Just sayin |
Kevin- I think you're forgetting that comparing a VW 4speed or Berg 5 to a Mendeola is not "apples to apples". The Mendeola (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any point here, as I'm just going by what I've read) is a purpose built higher performance piece built from scratch (at much more cost than an extensively modified 4 speed or even a Berg 5) that will not fit into a stock car without extensive modifications (will it even fit between the frame horns?) which adds even more to the overall cost as well. What would a 5 speed Mendeola (with mounts) cost, and what needs to be done to get it into a sedan? The beauty of a beefed VW trans is it's simplicity of installation and relatively low cost. For all but the most extreme street cars, they do the job. It's got some shortcomings, but I thought Gene did a pretty good job, when you consider what he had to work with.
You know as well as I do that a smaller motor can make big hp; you just have to wind it way higher. But then it's not really a street motor any more....
And the Hot VW's dyno challenge of a few years ago (as far as I know it's never been a "yearly" event) had some parameters; one of them being a 6500 rpm limit. I thought there were some pretty good hp numbers (4? motors over 200hp, with the winner producing 223? hp- I'm going from memory here) , considering...
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the2ndcashboy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2007
Posts: 827
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Type 5 Joe wrote: |
I would build a late (76-79?) ssc core
2nd choice would be a 1970 case W/ large pinion bearing and one drain plug.. |
So what is the advantage of using a 70 DSC single drain trans vs a 73-ish SSC? I'm curious as I have both. The DSC was in my 70 beetle when I bought it, and is a 4:12 R/P. The SSC is out of a Super and is a 3.88.
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| SRP1 wrote: |
| You see....... He talks in code and translation requires a priest, geologist, astronomer, biophysicist, and Indiana Jones. |
| modok wrote: |
| If anything comes out perfect it just means your measuring tools are substandard. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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70 trans? the late clutch throwout is nice.
Keep in mind that for many things.........mid engined racecars/rails, swingaxle, bus with reduction boxes, you HAVE to use the dual side cover case.
I think that is why many of the HP parts and gears were not made for the 002 trans in earlier years. When a lot of guys started using bus trans then that changed.
Nowadays you can put all aftermarket gears and a quaffe in the SSC............... I do not know what the weak link is then. I am sure we will find out eventually
Last edited by modok on Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76909
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| modok wrote: |
| Nowadays you can put all aftermarket gears and a quaffe in the SSC............... I do not know what the weak link is then. I am sure we will find out eventually |
I have a ZF in mine and haven't broken it, even with 6" slicks.
BTW... you can now put a Subaru 5 speed in with a WRX STI engine.
But then, it's not a VW.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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You know I hate subarus, and fuji's "sister" mountain is swarming with them, don't rub it in!
I would have had a berg-5 too, if not for "bugdetary" constraints. i can only afford four gears |
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the2ndcashboy
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2007
Posts: 827
Location: Houston
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| modok wrote: |
| 70 trans? the late clutch throwout is nice. |
The late T/O didn't start till, what, 71? 72? I know mine has the early design. The 70's have the mounting bosses, but they aren't tapped.
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| SRP1 wrote: |
| You see....... He talks in code and translation requires a priest, geologist, astronomer, biophysicist, and Indiana Jones. |
| modok wrote: |
| If anything comes out perfect it just means your measuring tools are substandard. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26785
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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so tap em 
If you want a swing trans with the late throwout that's the best way |
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Subarugears
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2012
Posts: 294
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| dalland wrote: |
Sorry Glenn, "but somebody is wrong on the Internet"
But as to get back on topic, for now people have mentioned, the berg5, the 915 and mendola. but what about other gearboxes?
G 50 for an example?
And are there any good writ ups about installing different boxes, was thinking about bus boxes in bugs or Porsche maybe? |
There's also the Subaru reversed 5 speed from www.subarugears.com
Been out in the market for a couple of years now attached to Subaru motors in beetles, kombis, Vanagons, type 4's, beach buggies.
Fits between the frame horns and can run VW CV's and axles.
Just about to test a type 1 & type 4 adaptor plate and flywheel that will allow a type 1 or type 4 VW engine installation with these. Should open up another option for those open to considerin a non-VWAG transmission.
Link
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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So berg bus 5-speed is probably also weak, because it uses type 1 gears
I thought that bergs did place the 5th gear just like porsche did, outside gear carrier, under nosecone to share the loads better,
But its an night and day difference when comparing shifting quality between 901/915 and vw transaxle.
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76909
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Please... this is a transaxle topic, not a engine topic. If you want a engine topic... start one.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
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58Dub
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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If you swap to a 915 trans, what do you use for a shifter?
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madmack
Samba Member
Joined: September 26, 2010
Posts: 93
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| 58Dub wrote: |
| If you swap to a 915 trans, what do you use for a shifter? |
A 5 gallon bucket with a plunger
Sorry I've owned 11's with 915 transaxles.
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1972 Tintop Westfalia 2.0 091
1966 Bahama Blue Type 1 2017
| SgtSamy wrote: |
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58Dub
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| madmack wrote: |
| 58Dub wrote: |
| If you swap to a 915 trans, what do you use for a shifter? |
A 5 gallon bucket with a plunger
Sorry I've owned 11's with 915 transaxles. |
Ive driven older 911s...and dont think they were any worse than a stock bug. I'm jsut curious since i hear people say they arent that bad to fit....but have never seen pics of what is involved with making it shift
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coolrydes
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2004
Posts: 1573
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ALB wrote: |
| coolrydes wrote: |
| modok wrote: |
| coolrydes wrote: |
"NEW" I don't think so it's a rebuild with some new parts. You even say
brand new if you do a "real" rebuild and replace the stock 4 speed gears with new gears picked.
Besides that fancy side cover what else is used inside. What kind of motor do you have that puts out 200hp? Because I have heard of the berg 5 speed breaking under 150hp. How about some specs on that 200hp engine? And have you ever really pushed that Berg (burn outs, racing, etc..)? |
If a regular SSC trans can handle 200 HP then why can't a berg 5?
The Bergs I think can IMPROVE on how vw built it, they have proven this over the decades
some people could screw up a wet dream |
Modoc,
What do you mean "SSC" trans. And what motor?
As far as the Berg's knowing transaxle, I think Mike Mendeola has a slightly better and he actually has proven it over decades. I'm not saying the late Gene Berg does not know anything, he always had a lot to say about everything as those of us who knew him know. But the berg 5 speed was only for a better freeway speed in a geared trans.. The extra load on the bearings and the placement of 5th gear was a patch to fix the rpm issues at best. Gene Berg came out with a lot of nice parts that were needed for high performance Vw thru the years for sure, but the gear centers on the type one and the contact area and width of type 1 gears will not handle a true 200+hp.. It simply exceeds the mechanical limits of a type 1 trans.. It does not mater how much you do inside or out side of these Transaxles, they were never designed to take that much hp, where the Porsche 915 trans was stock.
Now about type one normally aspirated engine that somehow make 200+hp without power adders. I think Modoc may have hit the nail on the head when he said "wet dream". Seriously guys, this is not show car talk and claims I actually know what these engine can make.. Even if I did not Hot VW publishes tHe Dyno comp every year where the top engine builders compete on the same Dyno, and they barely break 200hp with full race 2276's and 2332's with Ida's .. So lets be serious about "TRUE" hp numbers not fantasy numbers. I've been building engines for over 20 years so I have a clue of true numbers.
Just sayin |
Kevin- I think you're forgetting that comparing a VW 4speed or Berg 5 to a Mendeola is not "apples to apples". The Mendeola (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any point here, as I'm just going by what I've read) is a purpose built higher performance piece built from scratch (at much more cost than an extensively modified 4 speed or even a Berg 5) that will not fit into a stock car without extensive modifications (will it even fit between the frame horns?) which adds even more to the overall cost as well. What would a 5 speed Mendeola (with mounts) cost, and what needs to be done to get it into a sedan? The beauty of a beefed VW trans is it's simplicity of installation and relatively low cost. For all but the most extreme street cars, they do the job. It's got some shortcomings, but I thought Gene did a pretty good job, when you consider what he had to work with.
the winner producing 223 |
I agree with you I was not comparing the Mendeola transaxle to the Berg.. I was suggesting the Porsche 915 five speed because stock it can hold 300hp and was hammered out of the gate by the die hard Vw boys. I now just want to see the sub 2.0 L Vw engines that are daily driver engine put down the big numbers they claim.
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| madmack wrote: |
| 58Dub wrote: |
| If you swap to a 915 trans, what do you use for a shifter? |
A 5 gallon bucket with a plunger
Sorry I've owned 11's with 915 transaxles. |
Same here, and your comparo is just about spot-on.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
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-Alex77-
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 513
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Is then also bus berg-5 weak because it uses some type 1 internals and then not to use with over 200hp engines?
I have been told that it can handle atleast 250hp if shockloads are minimized.
Wonder if they feel like this when shifting their never rebuilt 915's 
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58Dub
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1713
Location: Davison, MI
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:46 am Post subject: |
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anyone with pics of a 915 conversion including mounts and linkage?
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Endo21
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Joined: September 30, 2012
Posts: 80
Location: Scappoose, OR
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I picked up a 64 last year for really cheap and when I was driving it around I down shifted to 3rd and my rpms dropped. Confused when I took off again I did the same while accelerated I found that this beetle had an unknown 5 speed. It would cruise down the highway at 80 and not feel like it was going to blow up. |
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