WBX heads on an aircooled engine?

[930]

Hello all,

I am new to the forum and a newbie in WBX-world so hence I am asking a bit of guidance from the old hands so to speak. I have tried to search but did not find an answer to my question (if it is there apologies for not finding it)

Is it possible to run WBX heads on otherwise aircooled engine by welding "extra / not needed" water holes in the head? Has anyone done this? Is it a totally idiotic idea, possible to do and / or worth exploring further?

The idea is to use WBX heads on an Autocraft 4-piece case drilled for 96.5mm cylinders. Head stud pattern is pretty damn close and as the idea would be to use the car on the street as well I have learned that Autocraft 910 heads are not really good for street due to lack of / small cooling fins.

Any other thoughts on this or is there an alternative approach I should look into?

[AdrianC]

[930]

Yes. It is understood very well that WBX heads do not have any cooling fins - for an obvious reason

I guess I wasn't clear in what I was thinking:

is it possible to run watercooled WBX heads by welding the water galleys on the mating surface of the head and run water through the head with an electric water pump for example?

Edit:

or is a smarter / easier alternative just to water cool the Autocraft 910 heads instead? Also I have understood that Limbach has had air cooled WBX bolt pattern heads but these are uber-expensive and rare? Any other options I might have for heads?

So the quest is to find good heads for Autocraft 96.5mm case for street use.

[D Clymer]

It's an interesting idea. The WBX heads do have inlet and outlet coolant ports on each side, so if the holes on the deck surface were to be closed there would still be a way to circulate coolant. I have no idea, though if the coolant circuit would allow full coolant circulation by just using the two side ports. I tend to think there would be issues with circulation since both side ports are inline and both on one side of the combustion chambers. It might be necessary to relocate one side port diagonally from the other one. It would be easy enough to cut open a junk head and see what the coolant circuit really looks like in a WBX head.

In terms of physical compatibility, do you know what the stud spacing is on the Autocraft case? The WBX case has different stud spacing than a stock Type 1 case, but it may also be different than the Autocraft case.

If you haven't been on Shoptalkforums.com the Type5 forum there would be another good place to post your question.

David

[rubbachicken]

there was a guy in sweden i think, running water cooled heads on an aircooled block it's do'able
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[930]

Hi,

thanks for Your reply, appreciate it.

Head stud pattern for an Autocraft 96.5mm case and WBX is within a few tenths of a millimeter so hence the heads should fit. Your suggestion of buying a scrap head was a good one so I can check that everything fits and check on the cooling side as well.

I will post the same question to shoptalk as well. Thanks for the suggestion!

[930]

Thanks for the reply.

Encouraging to hear that someone has done it before - so it can be done

Do You happen to remember any further details about the build? A link or any other info would be appreciated!

[vanagonjr]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=357381
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[930]

Linked topic was about converting T1 heads for watercooling, not about using WBX water cooled heads in an otherwise aircooled (Autocraft case) engine which I asked about?

Anyways as per the answers I've had it seems it is doable with some careful planning. If someone has experience with this particular combo i.e. Autocraft 96.5mm case which has very close to WBX head stud pattern and WBX heads You are more than welcome to chime in!

[geodude]

I believe I remember seeing someone use a Type IV aircooled engine that had the watercooled heads on an airplane a few years ago. Seemed overly complex to have ducting for the aircooled cylinders and have the pump, hoses, radiator etc. for the watercooled bits. On the other hand the very successful Rotax 912 and 914 use exactly that system on thousands of aircraft and Porsche did it on some of there cars.
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[Zeitgeist 13]

I really like this idea, especially if combined with an electric h2o pump. I believe Porsche built a similar arrangement with its six cylinder engines.
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'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
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[Vango Conversions]

I've seen similar to what geodude is talking about. I'm a pilot and my dad has a small airplane with a rotax 912. They have water cooled heads and air cooled cylinders. It works really well in an airplane because the heads get the hottest so water cooling helps but you don't have all the weight of water jackets around the cylinders and the larger radiator and extra coolant. Since most of the heat goes out through the heads you don't need all that much ducting or airflow around the cylinders.

Check this out. http://rockyjennings.com/

I was at the Arlington WA airshow/fly in and there was a guy selling an engine modified for aircraft use. He took a waterboxer case and heads, machined off the waterjackets and used aircooled cylinders. That way you don't need to mess with the different head stud pattern. Plust the bottom end of the waterboxers is actually pretty stout with the exception of the damn rod bolts.

Not sure what kind of water pump was used, probably an electric one.

I don't know anything about your air cooled case, but starting with a waterboxer at least gives you a larger displacement to start with.

You'll probably have more luck in the performance engine section of the samba than the vanagon section though. I bet somebody on here will send you a set of cracked waterboxer heads for the price of shipping though.

Let us know how what you end up doing, sounds fun.

[Vango Conversions]

Look up "oxyboxer" here is another place that's messed around with that stuff.

http://www.marcomansiperformance.com/products.html

googleing oxyboxer pulls up a bit of stuff

[930]

Hi,

solid reply, thanks.

WBX case of course would be of course the easy way around but as I happen to have an Autocraft case already - which is pretty bulletproof and it has very close to WBX head stud pattern - plus other bits for the bottom end I'd rather use what I have instead of starting with WBX case. Would be a different story if I wouldn't have that stuff already though...

I guess I should have posted this in the performance section to begin with. My bad...

For the guy who mentioned about the plumbing: yes of course it poses a problem of its own but I don't see it that big of a problem if I will land up with heads which won't boil all the time.

[mattcfish]

Yes, it's done on aircraft engines.
I remember seeing a kit at an aircraft site once. Can't remember where.
I've thought about doing it with a WBX case with the jackets cut off. Fit some customized aircooled jugs and you're in business. Of course then you need to figure out what to do about a waterpump. Their are electric ones, or you could build a small canister to mount a mechanical one on and attach plumbing to. You also need a way to force air onto the jugs, although I'm not sure how much, most of the heat is in the heads.
The advantages would be:
No more head pitting issues to worry about
Retained climate control for the passengers
Cool running heads, with happy valves
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[930]

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it.

So looks like I will explore this avenue further and I'll try to source a scrap head to look at the internals of the head more thoroughly. I was offered a set by a fellow samba-member already via PM but I can't reply for one day as I am a newbie here...(problem is that I am in Northern Europe so shipping costs would be quite abysmal )

I guess I would need to build some kind of baffles inside the head to prevent the water flowing through the head. At least this is what an individual had done earlier I was told. Also I plan on running an electric h20 pump and use a Porsche fan (which I already have) to cool the cylinders.

Let's see where this goes...

[gears]

Somewhere in my "pile" I have a waterboxer head cut into 4 pieces (from a time I was experimenting with dual-plugging every VW & Porsche head I could find). If I can locate it, I'll certainly post some photos.
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[Wildthings]

The information you seek is probably only a phone call away.

http://rockyjennings.com/

[Zeitgeist 13]

This would even be "cooler" if VW had opted to use type IV heads as the template for their WBX units. This would greatly simplify the exhaust routing and make the use of a crank-mounted cylinder cooling fan a little easier using existing bits n' pieces.

btw: Has anyone ever figured out how to TIG aluminum jackets around air-cooled heads?
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[gears]

Sure. Jon Karcey did that about 30 years ago. But he opted for oil-cooled, using a separate oil tank and an automatic oil pump. The valves on that engine rarely needed adjustment.
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