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Final stage - just getting it running comsistently good!
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emu88
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:09 am    Post subject: Final stage - just getting it running comsistently good! Reply with quote

Ok so I thought I would just start a new thread for this last niggling issue because the bits of advice are scattered all over the place and since I have been switching countries every few months it's been chaotic. But now I am back home for good and with my car so I have time, and want to just approach this final issue properly within one thread.

Few days ago i checked the valves, they were good, checked the points gap and that was good too. Have not touched the choke or carb adjustments as the last time I drove it (4 months ago) it was good.

I also did a compression check and all were 142-144. I cleaned the plugs too which were a bit black.

Today i tried to take it for a bit of a drive, but in second gear it would not go fast enough to get up to third. KEPT misfiring, spluttering and severely lacked power. It would just about idle but pressing the gas resulted in much spluttering and popping. The more I drove the worse it got and when I stopped, it crapped out. I managed to limp home at about 20mph.

I just pulled the plugs and are are nasty black again, with some sooty stuff splattered on the end of the lead too, but when i rotate the engine 1-4-3-2 each plug does fire with a blue/white spark. The static idle is good.

Evidently I am running rich? I recently cut end off fuel filter to get slightly wider tube and used a slightly larger bore fuel hose at the front - could be why..?
Also my muffler is leaking exhaust where they meet the exchangers.
Since the plugs spark ok, should I keep them or re-do the test but this time cranking the engine?
Should I re-adjust choke, check thermostat setting, then tweak carb?
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Solex 34-pict 3
SVDA Bosch distributor
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jlex
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had similar symptoms a couple years ago. It turned out to be the distributor wasn't advancing. Cleaned it up after disassembly and it's been great ever since.
Get you timing light on the engine and bring it to about 3000 rpm. The notch should advance and hold steady. No timing light? If you have a vacuum advance type distributor, disconnect the vacuum hose at the carb, then suck on it... watch the advance plate to see if it moves correctly and holds its position once vacuum is applied.
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emu88
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does, but my vacuum is disconnected entirely.

Now i cant remember something, is full advance of 28-32 degrees from 7.5 or from 0?
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emu88
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont get it. Static timing is right, 7.5 btdc the light comes on. When i use the strobe light the white 7.5 line on the pulley is several degrees further to the left of the crack in the case.

This is exactly the same problem i had before, i solved it (cant remember how dammit) and have not touched it since. Now it is doing the same again. Struggling and dying.
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03/1971, 1302 Super Beetle 1600 dual port
Solex 34-pict 3
SVDA Bosch distributor
Long reach heads


Last edited by emu88 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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emu88
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I moved the dizzy with engine running so 7.5 was inline with crack in case at idle. With the strobe light cylinder 1 and 2 fire consistently. 3 and 4 do not, sometimes not for several seconds, then normally, then not. WHY!!!??

The plugs are fouled, but when i tested them with engine off for spark, they all sparked. But i have had issues here before so i could just put new plugs in and then see. However i dont see the point because they will just foul too whilst i am adjusting idle and mixture etc, right?

I tested the middle wire to the dizzy and I have a consistent orange spark from the coil, so the issue must be with 3 and 4 plugs. OR leads i guess.
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03/1971, 1302 Super Beetle 1600 dual port
Solex 34-pict 3
SVDA Bosch distributor
Long reach heads


Last edited by emu88 on Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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jlex
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at the inside of your distributor cap... do the terminals look corroded or is there a crack or carbon tracks inside the cap? If you're getting inconsistet firing like that, it sounds like a bad cap or bad wires that are then are not firing. How are the spark plug wires looking? Not grounding out on the tin due to cracked insulation, are they?
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emu88
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jlex wrote:
Take a look at the inside of your distributor cap... do the terminals look corroded or is there a crack or carbon tracks inside the cap? If you're getting inconsistet firing like that, it sounds like a bad cap or bad wires that are then are not firing. How are the spark plug wires looking? Not grounding out on the tin due to cracked insulation, are they?

Well, the wires are about a year old, only done about 100 miles on them! They're Bosch. Dubt they are the issue, they are in good condition.

The cap is original, i had a new one but it cracked after only a short while so i cleaned up the original and replaced it, it has worked fine.

I still mainly suspect the plugs are at fault becuase they definitely ARE black and fouled. Some fuel on 3 and 4 too. So, i must be running rich.

I am thinking, wait for engine to cool, replace just 3 and 4 plugs with new ones, then start engine, quickly do the 30-pict-1 carb adjustments (mixture screw in until engine struggles, then back out til runs fastest, then in a little) and that SHOULD stop it running rich?

Then with warm engine so idle screw is on lowest step of cam, adjust the idle screw so i get about 850 rpm at idle.

Sounds perfect, but i deeply suspect it will not solve matters since i dont get why the plugs fouled this time when the last time i drove it it was fine.
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SVDA Bosch distributor
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gevmage
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the engine is suddenly running badly and your evidence suggest very rich running, then something in the carb might have gone amiss.

First thing--is the choke opening all the way when the engine's warm? That's critical.

You should also check the main jet to make sure it hasn't come loose.

Also--run the car a bit, then shut it off, and quickly remove the air cleaner and look down the carb. I you have fuel leaking in the carb throat, that's probably part of your problem.
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emu88
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gevmage wrote:
If the engine is suddenly running badly and your evidence suggest very rich running, then something in the carb might have gone amiss.

First thing--is the choke opening all the way when the engine's warm? That's critical.

You should also check the main jet to make sure it hasn't come loose.

Also--run the car a bit, then shut it off, and quickly remove the air cleaner and look down the carb. I you have fuel leaking in the carb throat, that's probably part of your problem.

Ok. If there is fuel leaking in the carb throat immediately after shutting off engine, what does it mean - fixable? And when you say main jet, in the carb i guess you mean?
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Lucatero
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have a vacuum canister on your dizzy and is disconnected due to it not advancing, did you plug the vacuum port on the left side of the carb?

assuming you have plugged the vacuum port on the carb, you now have a mechanical distributor function.

You need to time it at full advance with the port on the carb plugged. Set it at 30-32deg.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Backfiring out of the exhaust during acceleration is usually a sign of your timing not being set right
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HRVW
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad Everyone seems to think the DIZZY (excuse me the DIST) is not working properly.

If the DIST is at fault then what is causing the gas to turn into BLACK Carbon?....has to be a Spark of sorts.

Extreme carbon on the plugs and popping at the exhaust means a CARB problem with excessive fuel being consumed in the combustion chamber and some in the exhaust system.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HRVW, I am still learning how these cars work, and looking at his problem logically, and this is a good opportunity to learn something. The OP said he doesn't remember how to time his distributor, and that his vacuum can does not work.

Will retarded or too advance timing cause unburned fuel in the chambers causing backfire. There will still be a spark just not one that will efficiently burn all the fuel.

Again I am not expert mechanic, only 2years working on my own, and a learning opportunity will be appreciated, I am in no way starting a debate, or question your expertise, just trying to also learn.
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emu88
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Lucatero and HRVW. I'm also learning despite having tinkered for three years now!

Well yes it must be either a carb or spark issue - or fuel pump. I replaced the pump anout 6 months ago and it did function very well off it. The solex 30-pict-1 carb is brand new, got it from Tim and volkzbitz only about 6 months ago too. This is why I seriously doubt it can be at fault.

Yes, the ports on the carb are plugged. The port on my vac can is open. The can works but obviously is not in use so yes I understand that the dizzy is being used as a mechanical one. When i say i forgot something, i cannot remember if full advance of 32 degrees is to be measured from ZERO on the pulley wheel or 7.5 degrees? Currently it is measured from zero, is this right?

I suspect a timing issue also because with the static timing light it looks perfect, but with the strobe the 7.5 deg white paint mark appears left of the crack in the case. It also seems to jump around a lot, but that must be due to running off 2 cylinders! See i cannot be sure if running off 2 cylinders has caused the timing to be off with the strobe light, or if the timing being off has caused fouled plugs and 2 cylinders not to work...

Also i can't know if my carb is tuned too rich thus causing fouling and black soot and misfiring, OR if my fuel pump is giving too much fuel to the carb. So if i put in new plugs, adjust the carb mixture screw to leaner, but the actual issue is with the fuel pump, then those plugs will foul too. I will run out of plugs!!! How can i test the fuel pressure?


Edit: did some more research, this is a good link http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4904284-Fuel-Pressure-1600-DP-Content&p=66126458

So this guys problem was too high fuel pressure. I have a new pump but it did run fine with it so I don't get why it suddenly shouldn't. Without a fuel pressure gauge, I need to deduce whether the carb is set too rich or if the pump is pumping too much fuel to the carb. I will run the car, switch off, remove top half of carb and see the fuel level. Not sure what 'too high' would be but i'll post back here hoping someone will know. If it's too high then the issue must be with the pump, i will add gaskets to decrease pressure. If the level is OK, then the issue must be just with the mixture screw setting on the carb. In that case i will replace all fouled plugs, adjust mixture screw on carb to get ball park setting, then time with strobe light. Hmmm. I just need to know if the full advance must be measured from 0 or 7.5 degrees.
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Solex 34-pict 3
SVDA Bosch distributor
Long reach heads
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Lucatero
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The advance is set from 0.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lucatero wrote:
The advance is set from 0.

Ok good,thanks.

Gonna try some things now.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

emu88 wrote:


I am thinking, wait for engine to cool, replace just 3 and 4 plugs with new ones, then start engine, quickly do the 30-pict-1 carb adjustments (mixture screw in until engine struggles, then back out til runs fastest, then in a little) and that SHOULD stop it running rich?

Then with warm engine so idle screw is on lowest step of cam, adjust the idle screw so i get about 850 rpm at idle.



I have the H30/31, on a Single port 1600. Will above technique be a good guide for adjusting my carb? I will be heading from quite high elevation down to the coast, over about 1700 miles in about 2 days. I am sure I will have to adjust the carb...

Thanx for this tip!

Thread made for some great reading! And some lessons to be learnt!

Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also double check your firing order is correct 1 4 3 2
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 30 pict 1 with svda, so working as a 009, but vw resource says that 009 must be static timed AND that with 009 advance timing is more important than static... I dont get it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do not static time a mechanical advance. Do total advance. If you static time it and your total advance exceeds 32 deg your result is catastrophic failure.
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