1971 VW Bus, Dual Port Type 1 engine Oil Pump and Filter?

[Danwvw]

For years I have been wanting to put a Oil Filter on my bus, but the rear mount bar is where a combination pump filter goes. On my first 1971 Bus I did this with a full flow tap in the case and lots of hoses and stuff that ran to a huge oil filter under the finder but all of those hoses and the big filter took a lot of time to fill up, time for which there was little or no oil pressure for the motor.

What I am wondering is, is there a better way to install a filter on the Type 1 Dual Port Dog House engine in a Bus?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[busdaddy]

[bsairhead]

I'm going with the type 3 full flow mod on my next engine. It still needs hoses but uses the stock pump and cover.

[kreemoweet]

If you use a filter with an anti-drainback flapper and don't install it upside down, the hoses and filter should always
be full, or close to it, and thus cause no delay in oil pressure buildup.
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'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities

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[suffecool2]

Is there maybe a check/one way valve you put in ? I never thought about this problem, glad i saw this post ! Will be doing this soon myself, new problem to solve
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'71 Hightop - rolling resto/customization in process
'87 Golf - tranny's toast, but still runs
'70 bone stock Westy - gone

[Desertbusman]

The pump/filter unitized combo is for bugs only. The in-out (Maxi) pump is reported as restrictive both internally and at the ports. The good method is still the conventional case port, pump outlet internally blocked, and a fullflow pump cover.

Remember, there are two hoses. A check valve would stop drainback in one hose but block the other hose when it's running. Just use a filter with internal drainback feature. I do and never have problems or concerns.

Then the hoses- Yes, more stuff to deal with. 15 years on my dubs and never had a problem or leak with the hoses. Get then routed and assembled nicely and be content with it. I'd highly recommend not going with the fancy, costly steel outer braided hoses. My preference by far is the good blue hose and easilly replace it every 3 or 4 years.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy

[Danwvw]

So is the full flow arrangement a kind of by-pass a parallel path for oil to flow that by-passes the supply to the engine and dumps the oil back into the bottom of case?

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[busdaddy]

[Danwvw]

Thanks for everyones input here, looks like I should get the Items listed here and tap the case for full flow when I take it in for the machine work.

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Desertbusman]

You will be happy knowing you have filtration. Once your case is in a shop for any machining then adding the port usually only costs $15 or so.

Now everyone has opinions and preferences but nothing you have pictured I'd want.
- I wouldn't want a cast iron pump but rather an aluminum bodied pump to keep the thermal expansion rate the same as the case. I use Shadek.
-I wouldn't want that Berg pump cover on my engine. It has a built in relief valve and the valve can hang up as reported before here on the Samba. If it hangs then there is no pressure. Also to say that it's needed is to say that the stock case relief valve is not adequate to control the engine. Although I have a cast iron pump cover on mine I much prefer an aluminum cover which I do have on my bug. It has to do with wear on the ends of the pump gears. If an aluminum cover wears it is easy to refresh it with some wet or dry and a plate of glass. Although I checked my bug aluminum cover after about 12 years and there was no wear. Bottom line is the only requirement of a pump cover is that if be a flat and quality surface.
-As mentioned before I wouldn't want the exterior braided hoses or premade hose assemblies. They are just the plain old hose with the protective outer cover. Since they cost quite a bit more are not apt to ever be changed or replaced unlike the less expensive better material hose. And you can't visually inspect the hose exterior. Also the lengths might or might not be what you want when you best route the hose and mount the filter.
-I'm not sure if in the aftermarket community the filter mount porting arangement description is called left hand or right hand. But it is opposite of how I've prefered to mount them. Opposite direction might be more of what you would like.

So in my opinion paying twice as much for the Berg name for parts that arn't prefered works but isn't the best.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy

[Danwvw]

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Schadek-26mm-Oil-Pump-8mm-Pump-Studs-111-115-107-p/111-115-107akhd.htm
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Bugpack-30mm-Super-O-ringed-Oil-Pump-Cast-Cover-p/3036-3037.htm
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Full-Flow-Oil-Pump-Cover-3-8-NPT-Female-3048-p/3048.htm
Looks like there are a lot of nice oil pumps and covers out there, I was hoping the Burg wasn't the only good one because their prices are a lot more. I have read that the aluminum covers deform under the oil pressure and drop pressure a little. I have seen another article here that gives some data about 26mm vs 30 mm pumps and it looks like once the oil is hot one really needs the bigger pump to have any real pressure at idle. This is an interesting article but it has data errors that make it difficult to tell if a 30 mm pump is better than a 26mm. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...;start=120
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[SGKent]

[Danwvw]

Has anyone done this to their Case? Looks Cool!
I probably won't do this as it looks like a lot of unnecessary work and it would be easy to screw something up and it may weaken the VW Type 1 engine case. I guess if you had a blockage in the engine oil passages it would be a good idea though.
http://www.huelsmann.us/bugman/FilterTech.html
Also when adding a full flow do I need to plug the case as well as the pump as shown in the above thread?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[busdaddy]

I wouldn't call that unneccesary in the least, it's the one shure fire way to prevent a plug blowing out and losing all your oil in the blink of an eye, and it doesn't weaken anything either, time well spent IMO. And once all those plugs are out you can gun brush the galleries and remove years of caked on crap, a clean engine is a happy engine
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[Danwvw]

I found this oil pump which gives the option of adding it to my engine without rebuilding it or taking it out of the the bus even.
http://www.appletreeauto.com/FILTER-FLOW-OIL-PUMP-16-9702-0/
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[busdaddy]

Do you know what cam you have?, because that won't work with a stock 71 engine.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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[Danwvw]

[Desertbusman]

You've been busy And have a lot to throw 2 cents at. I'll save pump gear size for last.

-The AC.net 26mm Shadek is the good one. Many other places also sell it. Whomever you buy it from just go ahead and have them plug it. Or at least make sure they provide a plug. You probably want it for a 3 bolt cam. However either way it's the same pump except the gear pressed on further. I changed the gear positioning on one because of the cam and it was simple no problem.

-Besides the gear width I'd say no to the Bugpack. That might just only be personal preference. If it's not an aluminum body (not sure) I'd say no. Also the design is more complex and it has to use the matching cover. Too complex and I 'm not aware of any real advantage.

- http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Full-Flow-Oil-Pump-Cover-3-8-NPT-Female-3048-p/3048.htm pump cover. Might be OK but I've seen better. It does look to be on the thin side. But I'm not aware of aluminum covers Bulging like was mentioned. Compare the picture of it with the picture of the Berg cover. See how the outlet port protrudes out farther? That's a clearance issue with your engine mustache bar. It will probably do it but you will be cussing. Keep looking for other pump covers. Also note that Berg supplies that 45 ell with the cover and how it's a standard brass 45 except the corners are ground off? Any way at all to gain clearance is of great value. I think most of those fullflow covers you can tap farther into the port just so you dont block the feed port.

-Plug in the case outlet port from the pump? As AC net describes the tight fit of the Shadek pump into the case, no additional plug is needed. I havn't done mine. With a pump fitting loose in the hole you would want to plug it.

- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...;start=120 A lot of wrong info in that thread. Be careful. And yes, the diagrams have errors. In the past when I first saw that I discounted the whole thing as questionably and obviously bogus.. There's a lot more to it but that's for another day.

-No you don't want that- http://www.huelsmann.us/bugman/FilterTech.html From earlier "The in-out (Maxi) pump is reported as restrictive both internally and at the ports." Look at the little 1/4" ports. It might be better than not even having any filter availability on an engine you don't want to tear down and machine the case port. Then it might be a so-so solution. We used one once until it was later done right.


So pump size. My daily driven for 15 year bug has a 26mm FF Shadek and there is no concern whatsoever about pressure and it has plenty at idle and the norm of 10 psi per 1,000 rpm. And when I built the engine it had tolerances on the loose side of specs.
On my bus I used a 30mm pump.and have had no concerns with it. I like it and would do it again. However with the 10W-40 or 20W-50 on a real cold startup I'm careful to not goose it until it warms some and pressure has stabalized. Otherwise pressure does go up beyond 60 psi. Where you are you would see a lot more of that. Once warmed it would be great.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy

[Danwvw]

Thanks DesertBusMan for the in depth reply sounds good. I think I will wait for full flow until the I build the spare engine. The engine in the bus is holding good oil pressure but I don't really trust it for a cross country trip. I want to drive out to Colorado next summer in it but think I will wait for the new rebuild. When a type 1 starts climbing the rocky mountains in those busses they get way hotter than driving around on the flat even in the summer heat. I bet the Oil temp after a 15 mile climb at 45 MPH which is not uncommon in Colorado is pushing close to 300 degrees F even on a good stock compression engine in the summer time and the 8000 feet and higher elevations and doing that even 20W 50 motor oil looses oil pressure at an Idle.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[airschooled]