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Help with Addco Sway bar install
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WandS
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Help with Addco Sway bar install Reply with quote

Hey everyone,

So i purchased the addco 719 sway bar to install on my 2wd 85 van. I am using the supplied sway bar bushings from Addco as advised by T3, and then i am using the lower and upper endlink bushings from T3.

I read through other posts on the install and the weird angle of the endlinks when installing the bar. Some have used washers, some have used nuts, and some have used nothing at all.

I decided to use 2 washers on each side. As i try and tighten the bolts down, the upper bushings on the endlinks start to come out. Now, without the washers in there, i would imaging this would be even worse. With the washers, if i tighten just to the point to get the washers to touch, i get that inward pull on the bushings.

First time i tightened down the upper endlink bolt and nut, all seemed fine. As soon as i tightened down the lower eng link nut, (which in turns straightens the angle of the end link closer to 90) it act like a lever and want to pull the bushing out.

Any suggestions? Seems like this bar should have been made an inch or so longer. Or it was made for curved endlinks possibly.

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insyncro
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not leave the upper bushing pressing against the squared face of the bolt.

Suspension and its alignment of parts is all about geometry.
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Franklinstower
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I did my install, I had a similar problem. But, I also used stock rubber endlink bushings which are able to compress at an angle unlike the solid powerflex bushings. I would bet if you used stock rubber endlink bushings your angle of the endlink would not put so much stress at the end of the swaybar.

I think i used 1/2" UHMW and made spacers to better align the endlink to perpendicular. See here:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=365630&start=20

Paul
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: Help with Addco Sway bar install Reply with quote

WandS wrote:

Any suggestions? Seems like this bar should have been made an inch or so longer. Or it was made for curved endlinks possibly.

It was not made for curved links.. and yes its a hair short from end to end.

From your photos it looks like the bar itself may not be centereed on the vehicle.. slightly favoring one end .. The two droplinks appear to be at slightly different angles

Try loosening the assembly back up and get the dims from brakcet mounts to bar ends as close as possible.. then tighten back up on those drop link bolts.

I have seen the polyu bushins get damaged from the bolt head.. but the OEM-style rubber bushings I have, show no wear.. The 19mm rubber bushes fit well with that bolt. 21s are too tight.

Others have added a 1/4-3/8" spacer in between bar end and drop link to give a more perpendicular fit at the bolt head.

If you do a search, you'll find a couple of VERY complete threads on this topic.
..and images of spacers used.
(Franklintowers got it coverd!)


But FWIW, I used the OEM rubber style bushes.. and they've held up fine, even with the odd angle and bolt head. 20k miles plus. And not easy driving, necessarily.
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danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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WandS
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did read through all the other threads. Nobody mentioned an issue with the bolt head deforming the bushings. So does it seem like I need more spacers on each side to get the end links more perpendicular? Will a washer in the outside help or serve no purpose?

And will it really be better to go to stock bushings?

Thanks guys. Want to finish this project today so I can start on my no headlight issue tomorrow. (Pretty sure it's some bad grounds)
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WandS wrote:

And will it really be better to go to stock bushings?

I can not say if it is "better"

I know of one Samba member who's polyu bushing was cut up by the bolt head. He added a spacer.. and replace the polyu bushing with polyu. Been OK since.

I have more miles in on mine.. and had no cutting/no damage.. and no spacer. I may add a space if I ever come back to this part of the project.
(ain't broke don't fix it)


To be as objective as possible.. I think you lose some firmness with the rubber bushing, but am not sure if any mortal driver could tell in this application.
And from a limited sampling of 2 in this thread, the rubber bushing seems to hold up fine.

If the polyu bushing is not damaged, I'd try the spacer first. See if that cures the ills.

PS.. I would not put a big fender washer on the outside.. The bolt head needs to be allowed to move relative to the bushing and link. A small washer might work, taking off the edges of the bolt head.. maybe a hair smaller than the bolt head itself.
But I think I'd be inclined to grind the boltheads a little, if concerned.. round those inside corners a bit. Keeping in mind that the OEM design was a nob.
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-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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WandS
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will definitely pull everything out and grind down that bolt head. I will also add more spacers to the inside and take my time to align everything properly. Thanks for all the responses.
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WandS wrote:
Will definitely pull everything out and grind down that bolt head. I will also add more spacers to the inside and take my time to align everything properly. Thanks for all the responses.

Yeah... don't sweat it over the centering of the bar.. +/- 0.25" is OK.. The bar is not clamped down tight in the brackets.. It is allowed/intended to move.. and in driving, it should center on its own.
Just verify its not ff by a lot.. like 1/2"+
..and you should be OK..

But drive easy for a spell to allow it to seat properly.

Good luck.. and please report back.
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-89 GL Westy, SVX.. finally.

-57 pan f/g buggy with a 67 pancake Type 3 "S"
"Jimi Hendrix owned one. Richard Nixon did not"
-Grand Tour, Season 1, episodes 4 and 5

danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Wanderingman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: ADDCO 719 VERY close to coil springs Reply with quote

I am in the midst of installing an ADDCO 719 front sway bar(after waiting for six weeks for it to be delivered!!). I have everything up and in, just not yet completely tightened down due to the fact that the back ends of the sway bar are mighty close to my coil springs. I'm a little concerned, to say the least, that when I start driving and hit a bump the sway bar is going to bang right in to the coil springs. I did just install new Syncro.org springs and Fastwagen's heavy-duty end links, but I don't think either of them is contributing to the fitment issue...or maybe it's not even an issue. That's what I'm wondering. How close are your sway bar ends to your springs? Do they ever hit? Am I missing something with this pictures? BTW, I am also using some 9/16" metal spacers between the end links and the sway bar which Darren at Fastwagen's was cool enough to send to me with the links after we discussed the end link fitment issue. Anyway, feedback is appreciated!
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Wanderingman
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: ADDCO 719 VERY close to coil springs Reply with quote

Wanderingman wrote:
I am in the midst of installing an ADDCO 719 front sway bar(after waiting for six weeks for it to be delivered!!). I have everything up and in, just not yet completely tightened down due to the fact that the back ends of the sway bar are mighty close to my coil springs. I'm a little concerned, to say the least, that when I start driving and hit a bump the sway bar is going to bang right in to the coil springs. I did just install new Syncro.org springs and Fastwagen's heavy-duty end links, but I don't think either of them is contributing to the fitment issue...or maybe it's not even an issue. That's what I'm wondering. How close are your sway bar ends to your springs? Do they ever hit? Am I missing something with this pictures? BTW, I am also using some 9/16" metal spacers between the end links and the sway bar which Darren at Fastwagen's was cool enough to send to me with the links after we discussed the end link fitment issue. Anyway, feedback is appreciated!



OH SH*T! Never mind, it was user/installer/operator/whatever ERROR! I need to drill farther forward for the mounting brackets. I originally went through the old "tab" holes, but I am using the two-bolt brackets which need to be positioned slightly more forward. That's what I get for working in 93F/101F heat index temperatures! It's amazing what a cold drink and a little A/C will do for providing new perspective. Brick wall
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pedrokrusher
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone seen this from T3 Technique? Front AND rear anti-sway bars specially made for our vanagons. No mess to deal with. Soon to be available!

http://www.t3technique.com/t3-research-notes/stabilizer-sway-anti-roll-anti-sway-bars.html
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1989 vanagon Karmann Gipsy #652, TDI AFN
1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI ALH Silverfox
ex-1989 vanagon syncro passenger Syncrofox (Sold)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=598791&highlight=
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=493964&highlight=speed+aap+trans
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496589&highlight=carrier+bars
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=506025
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pedrokrusher wrote:
Anyone seen this from T3 Technique? Front AND rear anti-sway bars specially made for our vanagons. No mess to deal with. Soon to be available!

http://www.t3technique.com/t3-research-notes/stabilizer-sway-anti-roll-anti-sway-bars.html


Yeah, we are WAY behind on that project...mostly due to things beyond my control. However, the good news is that the sample bar is at the manufacturer right now and I hope to see the first few prototypes in the next 60-90 days. Rears will follow after the fronts are completely sussed out.
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pedrokrusher
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christopher Schimke wrote:
pedrokrusher wrote:
Anyone seen this from T3 Technique? Front AND rear anti-sway bars specially made for our vanagons. No mess to deal with. Soon to be available!

http://www.t3technique.com/t3-research-notes/stabilizer-sway-anti-roll-anti-sway-bars.html


Yeah, we are WAY behind on that project...mostly due to things beyond my control. However, the good news is that the sample bar is at the manufacturer right now and I hope to see the first few prototypes in the next 60-90 days. Rears will follow after the fronts are completely sussed out.


I found my next upgrade for this coming winter! Cool Cool Cool
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1989 vanagon Karmann Gipsy #652, TDI AFN
1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI ALH Silverfox
ex-1989 vanagon syncro passenger Syncrofox (Sold)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=598791&highlight=
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=493964&highlight=speed+aap+trans
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496589&highlight=carrier+bars
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=506025
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jetpoweredmonkey
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion the hardware (big bolts) that comes with the Addco bar is not correct. Go to my thread here and scroll down to the bottom to see how I installed mine.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=546700&start=20

I bought longer bolts, big ol' washers and a jam nut. The jam nut runs right up and tightens against the shoulder of the bolt with the washers and bushing on there, and then the nyloc nut on the other side of the bar tightens against the jam nut. Perfect geometry, no chance that the bushing can come off and no bad rubbin' on the bushing.
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Wanderingman
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Fastwagens HD End Links and Spacers with ADDCO 719 Sway Bar Reply with quote

I finished installing ADDCO front(719) and rear(488) sway bars along with Fastwagens Heavy Duty end links. After discussing the fitment issue(due to the ADDCO 719 sway bar being too short) with Darren @ Fastwagens, he was able to provide me with some 9/16" spacers to try out. They turned out to be just the right fix, IMHO, as you can see in the following pics. Also note that I installed another set of 3/4" x 2" flat washers on the insides of the links where the spacers butt up against the rubber end link bushings. The large, long bolts provided with the ADDCO bar ended up being a good length to accommodate the spacers and washers. All-in-all, a good fit. Oh yeah, new Bilstein shocks and Schwenk Springs(including some shims that Steve was nice enough to provide to correct the "Westy Lean") all the way around too. She rides like a new one. Very Happy

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Last edited by Wanderingman on Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wanderingman,
Nice combo of parts Exclamation
Very well executed.

Thanks for sharing.
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pedrokrusher
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pedrokrusher wrote:
Christopher Schimke wrote:
pedrokrusher wrote:
Anyone seen this from T3 Technique? Front AND rear anti-sway bars specially made for our vanagons. No mess to deal with. Soon to be available!

http://www.t3technique.com/t3-research-notes/stabilizer-sway-anti-roll-anti-sway-bars.html


Yeah, we are WAY behind on that project...mostly due to things beyond my control. However, the good news is that the sample bar is at the manufacturer right now and I hope to see the first few prototypes in the next 60-90 days. Rears will follow after the fronts are completely sussed out.


I found my next upgrade for this coming winter! Cool Cool Cool


Hi Christopher

Any news on your front and rear anti sway bars?
Picks please! Wink Cool
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Pedro
1989 vanagon Karmann Gipsy #652, TDI AFN
1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI ALH Silverfox
ex-1989 vanagon syncro passenger Syncrofox (Sold)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=598791&highlight=
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=493964&highlight=speed+aap+trans
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496589&highlight=carrier+bars
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=506025
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pedrokrusher wrote:
pedrokrusher wrote:
Christopher Schimke wrote:
pedrokrusher wrote:
Anyone seen this from T3 Technique? Front AND rear anti-sway bars specially made for our vanagons. No mess to deal with. Soon to be available!

http://www.t3technique.com/t3-research-notes/stabilizer-sway-anti-roll-anti-sway-bars.html


Yeah, we are WAY behind on that project...mostly due to things beyond my control. However, the good news is that the sample bar is at the manufacturer right now and I hope to see the first few prototypes in the next 60-90 days. Rears will follow after the fronts are completely sussed out.


I found my next upgrade for this coming winter! Cool Cool Cool


Hi Christopher

Any news on your front and rear anti sway bars?
Picks please! Wink Cool


Yes! The manufacturer has shipped the first prototype and I should see it here next week. Barring any adjustments that need to be made, I would like to see the front bars available sometime near the beginning of the year, but can't say for sure until all of the components are built properly, fitted and tested.

This has been a time consuming, very expensive road, but hopefully we are over the hump and can start offering what I have been promising for long time now; a better fitting, better performing bar.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet'ums.
It has been a long road.
I have a running list of all interested that have contacted me for Syncro bars, since I started posting about this.
Once you have a link, I will send out a mass email.

I think you know where I stand on this project Wink
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Christopher Schimke
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife isn't too fond of you calling me sweet'ums! Very Happy
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