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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:34 am Post subject: Door Shimming |
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If I'm trying to get the right panel gap on my doors, and I need to move the door back in the frame towards the latch side, is the accepted or proper technique to shim in back of the door hinge? I notice on the upper hinge that there is a slot in the A-pillar for the end of that hinge. If I need to shim to the point that the slot becomes too narrow, what do I do, make the slot wider? _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, 58 views and not even a nibble! Surely I'm not the only one with this problem on a 35 year old car! _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8211 Location: San Dimas
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panicman Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2011 Posts: 2290 Location: Canby, OR
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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How far off is it? I have read about (and used) newspaper and folded cardboard that I place in the hinge jam near the hinge that needs to be adjusted. Close the door slowly, and the hinge will adjust a bit. Are you talking thousandths of an inch or more? This is on a bug, not a ghia. _________________ Plate of shrimp |
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Fab4Fan Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2005 Posts: 703 Location: Claremont, So-Cal
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Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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I just did this a few days ago. I used 1/8 plywood scrap and placed it in the front door gap and shut it and pushed the door back. I read on here that some use paint stirring sticks and put them and shut the door, it helps get the hinge back into its original shape. Im doing bodywork on the car, so if your paint is nice you ma wanna tape up all the edges or use some other method |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17970 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:51 am Post subject: |
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2-3 layers of aluminum flashing? _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Well when I was considering making some shims, I was thinking all along about making them out of some 18 gauge steel sheet stock I have. Just a matter of how many layers I have to go to get it to work.
Fab4Fan are you saying that when people are doing what you described to get the hinge back into its original shape, that they are somehow bending the A-pillar metal that the hinge is attached to back? I suppose I could look in to that.
The weird part is the the gap on the rear of the door is about a 1/4 inch, and the gap on the front of the door is not even there. Can't even fit a piece of paper in there. I have the body sitting on Saw horses, with the front saw horse directly below the A-pillar. I suppose the metal that the hinges are attached to could have moved, but that seems like a lot.
I might wait until I put the body back on the pan, but I'm sure I'm going to have to adjust the door some, I doubt it will move back that much. I'll try and put up some pics. _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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Fab4Fan Samba Member
Joined: June 17, 2005 Posts: 703 Location: Claremont, So-Cal
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:12 am Post subject: |
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beetlenut wrote: |
Fab4Fan are you saying that when people are doing what you described to get the hinge back into its original shape, that they are somehow bending the A-pillar metal that the hinge is attached to back? I suppose I could look in to that.
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I never actually thought about it , I just did what I read others were doing. And it worked.
But now that you mention it.. that may be the case or maybe one of the hinge halfs was slightly bent.
I guess the gap gets tight because the door is extended past its limit and I guess could pull the metal where the hinge is attached to. As you try to shut the door with the obstruction in the gap, the weight of the door pulls the hinge at the pivot(pin) part, so I dont think the hinge is spreading. Its either getting moved back in position or bending itself straight.
It did work for me though, just be really light when you start. it required very little pressure to get it back.
i've only done one side, the other doesnt look to bad. |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:23 am Post subject: |
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beetlenut wrote: |
I might wait until I put the body back on the pan, but I'm sure I'm going to have to adjust the door some, I doubt it will move back that much. I'll try and put up some pics. |
your wasting time even thinking of this till the body is back on the pan, then you can just use a folded up shop towel in the hinges usually to get correct door gap. _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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dubllyou Samba Member
Joined: May 24, 2012 Posts: 1251 Location: Jack & Cee Motors
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:45 am Post subject: |
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60ragtop wrote: |
beetlenut wrote: |
I might wait until I put the body back on the pan, but I'm sure I'm going to have to adjust the door some, I doubt it will move back that much. I'll try and put up some pics. |
your wasting time even thinking of this till the body is back on the pan, then you can just use a folded up shop towel in the hinges usually to get correct door gap. |
X2^... everything will change once it's back on the pan.
Hot VW's had an article on adjusting door gaps a few months back. They mainly used shims under the body mounts to "warp" things into shape. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right...
three lefts do.
Wade
vwo60 wrote: |
You cannot polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter. |
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oldmanmark Samba Member
Joined: July 08, 2006 Posts: 842 Location: n.w. indiana,chicagoland
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Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:53 am Post subject: |
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yup,theyre right. u gotta have the body on the pan and i always bolt it down to pull it down how it will actually sit. that hot vw article that was mentioned ...check it out,the body/doors are aligned at body mount points. in otherwords twist and uneveness that shims alone wont fix. dont over look it,good learning and reference. |
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57heinz Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2012 Posts: 55 Location: torrance,ca
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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60ragtop wrote: |
beetlenut wrote: |
I might wait until I put the body back on the pan, but I'm sure I'm going to have to adjust the door some, I doubt it will move back that much. I'll try and put up some pics. |
your wasting time even thinking of this till the body is back on the pan, then you can just use a folded up shop towel in the hinges usually to get correct door gap. |
Tried the rag idea yesterday.Never knew my door could close so nice.I left the rags in there for a few hours while I was tinkering around.
Thanx! _________________ Still waitn for the money tree to produce!!! |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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57heinz wrote: |
60ragtop wrote: |
beetlenut wrote: |
I might wait until I put the body back on the pan, but I'm sure I'm going to have to adjust the door some, I doubt it will move back that much. I'll try and put up some pics. |
your wasting time even thinking of this till the body is back on the pan, then you can just use a folded up shop towel in the hinges usually to get correct door gap. |
Tried the rag idea yesterday.Never knew my door could close so nice.I left the rags in there for a few hours while I was tinkering around.
Thanx! |
So if you had to guess, what do you think is actually happening there? Is the metal in the A-pillar that the hinge attaches to so thin that the shop towel technique is bending it back into proper alignment? Just trying to figure out what's at work here. _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104
Last edited by beetlenut on Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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panicman Samba Member
Joined: December 18, 2011 Posts: 2290 Location: Canby, OR
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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I think the hinges are being bent very minutely. By placing an impediment in the gap, and forcing the hinges to essentially bend around it, you are widening the hinge's gaps.
I agree that you should wait for this adjustment until the body is on the pan. _________________ Plate of shrimp |
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57heinz Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2012 Posts: 55 Location: torrance,ca
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Ify!i would have to say its pulling the A pillar
Then again the gap grew between A pillar n front of door leading me to believe its tweaking the hinges the right way
Ill take a closer look at the lines tomorow. _________________ Still waitn for the money tree to produce!!! |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:10 am Post subject: |
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I'd guess it's PFM _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:23 am Post subject: |
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panicman wrote: |
I think the hinges are being bent very minutely. By placing an impediment in the gap, and forcing the hinges to essentially bend around it, you are widening the hinge's gaps.
I agree that you should wait for this adjustment until the body is on the pan. |
My guess would be the metal of the A-pillar that the hinge attaches to is bending, since the hinge itself is made from 3/16 -1/4 steel plate, and the A-pillar that the hinge mounts to is at best 20 gauge. I'll wait till I get the body back on to try all this, but just trying to understand what forces are at work right now. This is moving from plain ole body work into that area of craftsmanship that comes from years of working on cars which I don't have. _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Quit over thinking this simple procedure. The hinges bend over time or the door gets caught in the wind thus bending them, or somebody messed with them with the body off the pan . Once you get the body back on the pan and go to do this (if needed ) you will see that it just bends the hinge, well I suppose you could bend the body metal if you get to aggressive.
and you don't need to leave the shop towel in there any extended period of time.
It really is a simple process, no big deal. _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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beetlenut Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2009 Posts: 2983 Location: RI
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm not overthinking, just trying to understand. There is a difference. The passenger door front is hard up against the A-pillar, while the rear has about a 1/2 to 3/4 inch gap with the B-pillar. I'm willing to concede that the body being off the car is a big part of that. I'm just trying to get a feel for how much that procedure will move the door if I still have a sizeable gap once the body is back on, and the car has a chance to settle. Besides on the days I can't work on it, what else VW related do I have to do? _________________ scrapyards are for quitters
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Wetstuff wrote: |
... I spend more time shaking it than directing it?! I get a pretty decent blast for 8sec. then have to shake it again. |
- Words to live by right there!
My 74 Super rebuild thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6507104#6507104 |
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catahoula lou Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2008 Posts: 594 Location: south of Silver Springs, NV
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Group:
Is there a PDF or web-accessible version of the Hot VWs article mentioned above?
Best,
Thom _________________ 1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")
Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734). |
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